---
title: "Incentives for Employee Ownership | Yrjö Kopra | Negotiator 87"
titleOriginal: "Henkilöomistuksen kannustimet | Yrjö Kopra | Neuvottelija 87"
episodeNumber: "87"
guest: "Yrjö Kopra"
datePublished: 2021-06-25
duration: "50:40"
youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok"
originalLanguage: "fi"
topics: ["ownership_capital_tax","leadership_governance"]
subtitleMethod: "none"
provenance: "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata, the neuvottelija.fi episode record and the publisher's own chapter marks, translated one for one. The marks are genuine: twenty-five of them, with gaps from 44 to over 250 seconds, tracking the recording rather than a grid. No transcript is published here — the channel has no English caption track for this episode and the Finnish one is YouTube's automatic track. The guest designs and sells the incentive schemes the episode recommends, and the host works in corporate finance; nothing here is tax or legal advice, and the description of the 2021 reform is as it stood in June 2021 — anyone acting on it should check the provision as it now reads."
fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/99-henkiloomistuksen-kannustimet-yrjo-kopra-neuvottelija-87"
canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep87-henkiloomistuksen-kannustimet-yrjo-kopra/
---
# Incentives for Employee Ownership | Yrjö Kopra | Negotiator 87

English subtitles are not available on this page. This is an episode summary, not a curated transcript.

## Chapters

- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=0s) An employee share issue at net asset value feels too good to be true
- [01:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=108s) Yrjö Kopra, and the early years of options in Finland
- [02:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=152s) Is pay compensation for lost free time
- [03:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=214s) Fixed and variable reward: what is worth paying for
- [05:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=347s) The problem of an option's strike price, and market noise
- [07:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=422s) Free shares instead of options, without the criticism
- [10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=600s) Marin's government gave up the fair value principle
- [11:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=675s) The left's surprisingly positive attitude to employee ownership
- [13:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=822s) The new law's conditions, and the offer to a majority of staff
- [14:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=892s) An issue at net asset value means a discount of up to ninety per cent
- [16:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=974s) An ownership ethos starts at a holding of ten thousand
- [17:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=1044s) Restrictions tied to employment, and the owner's protections
- [20:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=1210s) The best incentive is ownership, not an option
- [21:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=1287s) Capital-poor Finns, and what net asset value means in valuation
- [24:48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=1488s) Dilution: the owner's percentages against the employee's euros
- [28:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=1720s) Is the reform a good deal for the tax authority too
- [31:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=1887s) Modern compensation instruments, and the value of continuity
- [34:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=2040s) Marimekko's employee share issue, and mental commitment
- [35:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=2146s) State-interest companies, the option ban, and Fortum's example
- [39:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=2340s) The board's role, strategy, and share savings programmes
- [42:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=2551s) Board fees in shares, and the law's limits
- [43:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=2605s) The money motive, long-term incentives and ESG criteria
- [46:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=2800s) Exxon, Shell, and Neste's strategic turn
- [48:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=2902s) Three listing waves, and market-based financing
- [50:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok&t=3007s) Closing words

## Summary

The compensation specialist and investment banker Yrjö Kopra has built Finnish option and share incentive schemes since the 1980s, and he calls the tax reform on employee share issues in unlisted companies, effective January 2021, the most significant tax incentive of his career. Shares can now be sold to staff at net asset value with no tax consequences — a fifty to ninety per cent discount to fair value — and the reform covers roughly ninety-nine per cent of Finnish companies. Kopra's central claim is that this is not about pay but about an ownership ethos: a holding worth ten thousand euros changes what an employee talks about. The episode covers the strike-price problem with options and the shift to free share awards, the two sides of dilution, Marimekko's employee share issue, the politically motivated option ban in state-interest companies, and how long-term incentives drove the strategic turns at Neste and the media companies.

## The discount is the point

Net asset value against fair value is not a small adjustment. For a growing company the gap is most of the equity's worth, and being able to place shares with staff across that gap without a tax event is what makes the reform different in kind from the schemes Kopra spent thirty years building around it.

## Ten thousand euros

His claim about the threshold is the one worth testing: the shift in how an employee thinks arrives at a holding far smaller than the amounts incentive design usually reaches for. If true, most schemes are over-engineered for the effect they are buying.

## Why options lost

An option's payoff depends on the strike price and on what the market did, neither of which the holder controls. A free share is worth what the company is worth. The move from one to the other is the quiet structural change in Finnish incentive practice, and this episode explains why it happened.


## Watch

The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [Henkilöomistuksen kannustimet | Yrjö Kopra | Neuvottelija 87](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZR-V1uIyok).
A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/99-henkiloomistuksen-kannustimet-yrjo-kopra-neuvottelija-87).

## In depth

The Neuvottelija AI editions carry a long-form write-up of this episode:
[English](https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep87-henkiloomistuksen-kannustimet-yrjo-kopra/) · [suomeksi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/economy/ep87-henkiloomistuksen-kannustimet-yrjo-kopra/).

---

Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija — Incentives for Employee Ownership | Yrjö Kopra | Negotiator 87, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep87-henkiloomistuksen-kannustimet-yrjo-kopra/, 2021-06-25. For quotes include episode 87 and timestamp.