---
title: "Operation: On the Way to a Billion | Juho Lipsanen | Negotiator 78"
titleOriginal: "Operaatio matkalla miljardiin | Juho Lipsanen | Neuvottelija 78"
episodeNumber: "78"
guest: "Juho Lipsanen"
datePublished: 2021-05-12
duration: "43:07"
youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4"
captionsVtt: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep78-operaatio-matkalla-miljardiin-juho-lipsanen/captions.en.vtt
captionsSrt: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep78-operaatio-matkalla-miljardiin-juho-lipsanen/captions.en.srt
originalLanguage: "fi"
topics: ["leadership_governance","finnish_economy_policy"]
subtitleMethod: "none"
provenance: "Owner page created on 2026-08-30 from a MacWhisper Finnish transcription (538 cues, entity pass applied from the archived raw). Chapter timecodes are the publisher's own YouTube chapter list, verified cue by cue against the transcript, and the titles are translated from it. Subtitles are Finnish only; no English cue track shipped."
fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/88-operaatio-matkalla-miljardiin-juho-lipsanen-neuvottelija-78"
canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep78-operaatio-matkalla-miljardiin-juho-lipsanen/
---
# Operation: On the Way to a Billion | Juho Lipsanen | Negotiator 78

## Chapters

- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=0s) Highlights and the episode's main themes
- [01:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=60s) The ownership theme continues
- [01:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=80s) Operation: on the way to a billion, and the guest
- [02:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=140s) Operation Turnaround and the tools of a crisis
- [02:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=160s) A career at ABB, Telia and Alma Media
- [03:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=198s) Percy Barnevik and the charm offensive
- [04:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=240s) Contact points across the customer's whole organisation
- [04:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=289s) The Sonera example and coordinating a negotiation
- [05:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=343s) Women's membership of the Stock Exchange Club, and the background
- [07:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=420s) The 1997 rule change and getting the decision through
- [08:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=522s) Why a billion is the right target
- [09:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=549s) Coronaria's story, from ten people
- [09:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=596s) Time, money and management as the basis of strategy
- [10:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=624s) Buying Silmäasema and selling other businesses
- [11:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=680s) Two businesses under one roof
- [12:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=720s) Harvard's definition of strategy: objectives and means
- [12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=750s) What gets measured gets done
- [13:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=780s) Structure before strategy, the ABB way
- [13:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=795s) The smaller beats the larger with the right tool
- [14:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=840s) Letting doctors do what they love
- [14:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=884s) What is the real objective of the health reform
- [15:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=955s) The Swiss canton model and health insurance
- [16:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=980s) Teaching economic literacy in schools
- [17:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1070s) The birth of Ilmatar Windpower and the chairmanship
- [18:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1135s) The first turbine at Luhanka in 2014
- [19:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1160s) Google buys the power from the Kajaani park
- [19:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1180s) Offshore wind technology brought onshore
- [20:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1230s) Nuclear power, Power-to-X and hydrogen
- [21:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1310s) The financing structure and the independent power producer
- [22:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1370s) Stora Enso's mill sale to Google
- [23:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1420s) The encounter with Sergey Brin
- [24:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1460s) The value of international networks to Finland
- [25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1500s) A billion is mountaineering, avalanches included
- [25:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1530s) Feed-in tariffs gone, and the technology has moved on
- [26:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1560s) Peat in natural science, EU science and religious studies
- [27:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1620s) Emission factors: wood and natural gas
- [28:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1680s) Peat's value as a reserve worth hundreds of billions
- [29:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1740s) Vapo's environmental turnaround and the watercourses
- [31:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1860s) Juuri Partners and the minority investment model
- [32:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1920s) Aico and the automation of administration
- [33:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1980s) Half a per cent of savings and the rise in value
- [33:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2010s) Fortum, Neste and Sanoma as customers
- [34:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2070s) Blackline as a competitor, and valuation multiples
- [35:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2120s) Summer jobs at Nokia and the stress of flash reports
- [36:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2190s) Jobs move, and the need for skilled people
- [37:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2220s) The sectors where a billion is possible
- [39:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2340s) Exit dynamics and the role of board work
- [39:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2370s) Ilmatar's attempted listing, and the retreat
- [40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2400s) Swiss and French partners
- [41:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2470s) The SPAC structure and the listing market
- [42:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2520s) Do not sell too early — raise the bar
- [42:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2550s) Closing words and thanks

## Summary

Juho Lipsanen has never had a Finnish-speaking boss. He has spent his operational career reporting to Swedes, Norwegians and Swiss, and in this episode he brings that toolkit to bear on companies that have created, or could create, more than a billion euros of value starting from almost nothing: Coronaria, Ilmatar Windpower and Aico. The conversation runs from Percy Barnevik's "charm offensive" — matching every level of your organisation to the customer's, so that a deal is won long before the negotiation — to Harvard's definition of strategy as a series of decisions with objectives and means, and to the discipline that what gets measured gets done. Lipsanen also explains peat in three different sciences, having chaired the board of Vapo, now Neova: in natural science it is organogenic and grows, in EU science it is fossil, and in religious studies it is evil. Along the way: the Swiss canton model, the opening of the Stock Exchange Club to women, an encounter with Sergey Brin that ended in Google buying Finnish wind power, and the argument that Finnish companies are sold far too early.

## Chapters

- [**00:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=0s) — Highlights and the episode's main themes
- [**01:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=60s) — The ownership theme continues
- [**01:20**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=80s) — Operation: on the way to a billion, and the guest
- [**02:20**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=140s) — Operation Turnaround and the tools of a crisis
- [**02:40**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=160s) — A career at ABB, Telia and Alma Media
- [**03:18**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=198s) — Percy Barnevik and the charm offensive
- [**04:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=240s) — Contact points across the customer's whole organisation
- [**04:49**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=289s) — The Sonera example and coordinating a negotiation
- [**05:43**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=343s) — Women's membership of the Stock Exchange Club, and the background
- [**07:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=420s) — The 1997 rule change and getting the decision through
- [**08:42**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=522s) — Why a billion is the right target
- [**09:09**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=549s) — Coronaria's story, from ten people
- [**09:56**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=596s) — Time, money and management as the basis of strategy
- [**10:24**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=624s) — Buying Silmäasema and selling other businesses
- [**11:20**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=680s) — Two businesses under one roof
- [**12:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=720s) — Harvard's definition of strategy: objectives and means
- [**12:30**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=750s) — What gets measured gets done
- [**13:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=780s) — Structure before strategy, the ABB way
- [**13:15**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=795s) — The smaller beats the larger with the right tool
- [**14:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=840s) — Letting doctors do what they love
- [**14:44**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=884s) — What is the real objective of the health reform
- [**15:55**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=955s) — The Swiss canton model and health insurance
- [**16:20**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=980s) — Teaching economic literacy in schools
- [**17:50**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1070s) — The birth of Ilmatar Windpower and the chairmanship
- [**18:55**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1135s) — The first turbine at Luhanka in 2014
- [**19:20**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1160s) — Google buys the power from the Kajaani park
- [**19:40**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1180s) — Offshore wind technology brought onshore
- [**20:30**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1230s) — Nuclear power, Power-to-X and hydrogen
- [**21:50**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1310s) — The financing structure and the independent power producer
- [**22:50**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1370s) — Stora Enso's mill sale to Google
- [**23:40**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1420s) — The encounter with Sergey Brin
- [**24:20**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1460s) — The value of international networks to Finland
- [**25:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1500s) — A billion is mountaineering, avalanches included
- [**25:30**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1530s) — Feed-in tariffs gone, and the technology has moved on
- [**26:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1560s) — Peat in natural science, EU science and religious studies
- [**27:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1620s) — Emission factors: wood and natural gas
- [**28:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1680s) — Peat's value as a reserve worth hundreds of billions
- [**29:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1740s) — Vapo's environmental turnaround and the watercourses
- [**31:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1860s) — Juuri Partners and the minority investment model
- [**32:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1920s) — Aico and the automation of administration
- [**33:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=1980s) — Half a per cent of savings and the rise in value
- [**33:30**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2010s) — Fortum, Neste and Sanoma as customers
- [**34:30**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2070s) — Blackline as a competitor, and valuation multiples
- [**35:20**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2120s) — Summer jobs at Nokia and the stress of flash reports
- [**36:30**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2190s) — Jobs move, and the need for skilled people
- [**37:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2220s) — The sectors where a billion is possible
- [**39:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2340s) — Exit dynamics and the role of board work
- [**39:30**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2370s) — Ilmatar's attempted listing, and the retreat
- [**40:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2400s) — Swiss and French partners
- [**41:10**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2470s) — The SPAC structure and the listing market
- [**42:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2520s) — Do not sell too early — raise the bar
- [**42:30**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4&t=2550s) — Closing words and thanks

## Watch

The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [Operaatio matkalla miljardiin | Juho Lipsanen | Neuvottelija 78](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYZfFQ3SfS4).
A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/88-operaatio-matkalla-miljardiin-juho-lipsanen-neuvottelija-78).

---

Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija — Operation: On the Way to a Billion | Juho Lipsanen | Negotiator 78, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep78-operaatio-matkalla-miljardiin-juho-lipsanen/, 2021-05-12. For quotes include episode 78 and timestamp.