---
title: "The value of media content, IPR and Disney | Timo Argillander | Negotiator 41"
titleOriginal: "Mediasisältöjen arvo, IPR ja Disney | Timo Argillander | Neuvottelija 41"
episodeNumber: "41"
guest: "Timo Argillander"
datePublished: 2020-10-21
duration: "36:24"
youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE"
captionsVtt: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep41-mediasisaltojen-arvo-ipr-ja-disney-timo-argillander/captions.en.vtt
captionsSrt: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep41-mediasisaltojen-arvo-ipr-ja-disney-timo-argillander/captions.en.srt
originalLanguage: "fi"
topics: ["investing_markets","ma_exits"]
subtitleMethod: "none"
provenance: "Owner page assembled from the MacWhisper SRT transcript, YouTube metadata and the neuvottelija.fi episode record. Chapter timecodes are taken from the transcript; no caption files are published with this page."
fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/47-neuvottelija-41-mediasisaltojen-arvo-ipr-ja-disney-timo-argi"
canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep41-mediasisaltojen-arvo-ipr-ja-disney-timo-argillander/
---
# The value of media content, IPR and Disney | Timo Argillander | Negotiator 41

## Chapters

- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=0s) IPR VC and why intangible rights are an asset class
- [02:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=155s) Why intangible content escapes price competition
- [05:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=306s) Art versus entertainment: the Moomins, Disney and permanent narrative
- [07:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=456s) Disney's strategy — buying rights while others bought distribution
- [10:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=609s) The Yellow Snowman and Finnish content going abroad
- [12:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=761s) Portfolio logic: we do not trust our own taste
- [15:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=911s) Venture capital and the search for alternative assets
- [17:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=1067s) Key people, trust, and why this is a people business
- [20:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=1221s) The media shift: mobile, video and the fate of books
- [22:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=1372s) Platforms: YouTube, Spotify, TikTok, Twitch and AVOD
- [25:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=1523s) The role of the public broadcaster
- [27:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=1675s) International negotiation and a differentiated strategy
- [30:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=1827s) Valuation: sales estimates, DCF and a Credit Suisse cautionary tale
- [32:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=1978s) The sector as employer, and the small-language discount
- [35:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE&t=2128s) Tips for artists moving to digital channels

## Summary

IPR VC managing director Timo Argillander explains how a venture capital business is built on intangible rights — in practice film and television content. The premise is that manufacturing faces Asian price competition while intangible content cannot be copied the same way, so value can be created in Finland and sold worldwide. The episode covers Disney's strategy of buying rights while competitors bought distribution, portfolio logic for when you cannot trust your own taste, an off-balance-sheet debt instrument that avoids diluting the partner, and the pricing problem a small language area faces in the market streaming opened up.

## What is discussed

- **The thesis.** Manufacturing meets Asian price competition; intangible content does not get copied the same way, so it can be created in Finland and sold worldwide. IPR VC narrowed a broad intangible-rights field down to moving-image content.
- **Art versus entertainment.** Argillander resists the distinction — a large grey zone separates them, and Garfield and James Bond obey the same revenue laws. What the Moomins do well is controlling the contexts in which the trademark is licensed.
- **Why the market grows.** More leisure time and a device in every pocket means both the hours and the money spent on media content keep rising.
- **Disney bought rights, not pipes.** Star Wars, Pixar and Marvel gave it the long tails; competitors bought TV networks and distribution technology and are weaker for it.
- **Gigglebug and the Yellow Snowman.** The first production Disney ever bought from Finland; the investment targets a team with a pipeline rather than a single title.
- **What streaming changed.** A national advertising-funded channel cannot justify a Finnish crime drama; a subscription operator can, because its customers pay to find something unusual. Bordertown's aerial forest shots irritate one viewer and enchant another.
- **Portfolio thinking.** Ten good projects, one hit, and no way to know which — so the fund absorbs the failures. Creation still starts from the script and its hooks.
- **The instrument.** An off-balance-sheet debt investment into the product and its rights, made alongside an international sales company across a package of projects — growth without dilution, and a track record required.
- **Valuation.** Per-project sales estimates spread over future years with a DCF, using a partner's typical revenue curve as the average. Miettinen's Credit Suisse counter-example: $1,500 per cable subscriber only worked if every subscriber bought every package.
- **The small-language discount.** Finnish content prices below French and far below English — with the next question being how to sell better into a market that streaming has already opened.

## Watch

The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [Mediasisältöjen arvo, IPR ja Disney | Timo Argillander | Neuvottelija 41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28zg7vxi6HE).
A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/47-neuvottelija-41-mediasisaltojen-arvo-ipr-ja-disney-timo-argi).

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Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija — The value of media content, IPR and Disney | Timo Argillander | Negotiator 41, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep41-mediasisaltojen-arvo-ipr-ja-disney-timo-argillander/, 2020-10-21. For quotes include episode 41 and timestamp.