---
title: "The national bourgeois investment banker | Peter Fagernäs | Negotiator 351"
titleOriginal: "Kansallisporvari investointipankkiiri | Peter Fagernäs | Neuvottelija 351"
episodeNumber: "351"
guest: "Peter Fagernäs"
datePublished: 2025-09-16
duration: "01:00:01"
youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo"
originalLanguage: "fi"
topics: ["ma_exits","investing_markets"]
subtitleMethod: "none"
provenance: "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata, the neuvottelija.fi episode record and the publisher's own chapter marks, translated one for one; their spacing is irregular and matches the recording. No transcript is published here — the channel has no English caption track for this episode and the Finnish one is YouTube's automatic track. The host worked for the guest early in his career, and the episode is also a book promotion; the long-form write-up in the Neuvottelija AI editions states both."
fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/706-kansallisporvari-investointipankkiiri-fagernas-neuvottelija"
canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep351-kansallisporvari-investointipankkiiri-peter-fagernas/
---
# The national bourgeois investment banker | Peter Fagernäs | Negotiator 351

English subtitles are not available on this page. This is an episode summary, not a curated transcript.

## Chapters

- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=0s) Peter 'Petteri' Fagernäs
- [00:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=40s) The book: how a teenage radical became a millionaire
- [01:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=104s) KOP and SYP: comparing earnings and balance-sheet values in the talks
- [03:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=190s) Swedish-speaking customers and the Merita management team
- [04:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=278s) The National Coalition, Kekkonen, and the general reasons
- [06:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=361s) Fitting studies around politics
- [07:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=464s) Mauri Pekkarinen's review, and the Fortum discussions
- [10:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=626s) Miettinen's thesis on option loans, and Neuvotteluvalta
- [12:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=728s) A banking career after the Merita merger
- [13:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=823s) Postings in New York, Stockholm and London
- [15:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=912s) Banking relationships in energy and mobile operators
- [16:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=1005s) The Nordic partner-bank phase and a Luxembourg subsidiary
- [18:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=1099s) Jaakko Pöyry's influence, and family history
- [19:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=1194s) Uno Fagernäs in the Continuation War
- [21:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=1282s) Genealogy and the family's farms
- [23:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=1385s) The currency crisis and interest rate markets
- [24:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=1480s) Recruiting in London, and Pentti Kouri
- [27:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=1662s) Kouri's significance as an economist, and the KOP–SYP frictions
- [29:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=1750s) Power games between the banks, and Björn Wahlroos's role
- [31:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=1906s) Mergers and investment banking culture
- [33:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=1997s) Options, share incentives and what they were for
- [34:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=2096s) Options disappearing, and the fall in appetite for growth
- [38:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=2287s) Conventum and venture capital
- [39:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=2373s) Building a wealth management unit at Pohjola and OP
- [41:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=2479s) Ilmarinen and the value of a distribution network
- [42:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=2559s) Consulting work, and the birth of Taaleri
- [44:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=2668s) Taaleri's private equity fairness opinion in the Elomaa case
- [45:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=2743s) Private equity models and the state's role
- [47:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=2825s) Aktia's Taaleri acquisition and its problems
- [48:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=2922s) Family and daily life alongside a banking career
- [50:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=3011s) The opening of financial markets in the 1980s
- [51:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=3099s) Appetite for growth, and the state's role in the economy
- [53:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=3218s) The complexity of the social security system
- [56:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=3387s) Proposals for developing the pension system
- [57:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=3465s) An individual funded pension on the British model
- [59:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo&t=3550s) The journey from a closed banking sector to a market economy

## Summary

Peter Fagernäs discusses his book Kansallisporvari Peter Fagernäs – Kuinka teiniradikaalista tuli miljonääri (Docendo) and four decades inside Finnish investment banking. The episode is unusual because the interviewer once worked for the guest — Fagernäs was Sami Miettinen's first real boss at Prospectus Oy. In the KOP–SYP merger the exchange-ratio negotiation was done by Fagernäs and Juha Mikkonen alone, share prices could not serve as the yardstick, and KOP's real estate had to be written down by 1.6 billion. Also: Pentti Kouri, whom Fagernäs met at the IMF through Jorma Ollila and to whom he lost a student union election by two votes; Black Monday, heard about from the only telephone on an island in the Bay of Bothnia; the Fortum options controversy; and Conventum, Pohjola and Taaleri. It ends with two proposals: a self-directed funded pension on the British model, and merging the pension companies' administration while decentralising their investing.

## The merger, as the people in the room saw it

The most valuable passage is procedural. In the KOP–SYP merger the exchange ratio could
not be read off share prices, so it was negotiated directly between two people, and part
of the answer was a 1.6 billion write-down of KOP's real estate. That is the kind of
detail that does not survive into the published record.

## What the episode is, as well as a history

It is a book promotion, and the interviewer once worked for the guest. Neither fact
undermines the account, but both belong next to it. The closing proposals — a
self-directed funded pension on the British model, and merging the pension companies'
administration while decentralising their investing — are the guest's own policy views.


## Watch

The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [Kansallisporvari investointipankkiiri | Peter Fagernäs | Neuvottelija 351](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7MtLhl0Ndo).
A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/706-kansallisporvari-investointipankkiiri-fagernas-neuvottelija).

## In depth

The Neuvottelija AI editions carry a long-form write-up of this episode:
[English](https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep351-kansallisporvari-investointipankkiiri-peter-fagernas/) · [suomeksi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/economy/ep351-kansallisporvari-investointipankkiiri-peter-fagernas/).

## Explore the ideas in depth

- [How to Sell a Company in Finland: An M&A Banker's Guide to a Clean Exit](https://www.neuvottelija.com/guides/how-to-sell-a-company-in-finland/): A practical guide to selling a company in Finland and the Nordics — the process phase by phase, share deal vs asset deal, valuation, due diligence, buyer types, deal structures, taxes on the sale, minority squeeze-outs and the ownership context that shapes every exit. Grounded in Neuvottelija conversations and Translink M&A practice.
- [Nordic SaaS Valuation & M&A: How AI Reprices Software Companies](https://www.neuvottelija.com/guides/nordic-saas-valuation-and-ma/): How software companies in the Nordics are valued and sold as AI moves inference into the cost of goods sold — where multiples stand in mid-2026, the metrics that get repriced, why vertical SaaS defends its premium, AI due diligence, and the shift from seats to outcomes. Grounded in Translink's SaaS valuation work and Neuvottelija conversations.
- [Private equity in Finland: active ownership, growth and AI-assisted investor relations](https://www.neuvottelija.com/guides/private-equity-finland-active-ownership-and-ai/): A practical guide to venture capital, growth and buyouts, ownership economics, risks and investor communication — with Pia Santavirta’s Neuvottelija 94 interview and Sami Miettinen’s March 2026 FVCA workshop.

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Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija — The national bourgeois investment banker | Peter Fagernäs | Negotiator 351, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep351-kansallisporvari-investointipankkiiri-peter-fagernas/, 2025-09-16. For quotes include episode 351 and timestamp.