---
title: "Security policy, the euro and NATO | Vesa Kanniainen | Negotiator 33"
titleOriginal: "#neuvottelija 33 - Turvallisuuspolitiikka EU:ssa, euro ja NATO (Vesa Kanniainen)"
episodeNumber: "33"
guest: "Vesa Kanniainen"
datePublished: 2020-08-24
duration: "37:56"
youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY"
captionsVtt: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep33-turvallisuuspolitiikka-euro-ja-nato-vesa-kanniainen/captions.en.vtt
captionsSrt: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep33-turvallisuuspolitiikka-euro-ja-nato-vesa-kanniainen/captions.en.srt
originalLanguage: "fi"
topics: ["geopolitics"]
subtitleMethod: "none"
provenance: "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata, the neuvottelija.fi episode record and the published Neuvottelija AI edition summary. No transcript imported."
fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/39-neuvottelija-33-turvallisuuspolitiikka-eussa-euro-ja-nato-ve"
canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep33-turvallisuuspolitiikka-euro-ja-nato-vesa-kanniainen/
---
# Security policy, the euro and NATO | Vesa Kanniainen | Negotiator 33

## Chapters

- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=0s) NATO needs Finland more than Finland needs NATO
- [02:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=120s) The security review and a game-theoretic reading of the YYA treaty
- [04:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=240s) Federation theory and fiscal federalism
- [06:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=360s) Good institutions as a precondition for federation
- [08:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=480s) Euro-scepticism and EU support are two different things
- [10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=600s) Finland's security deficit and the scale of the EU
- [12:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=720s) Conscription and defence spending as a share of GDP
- [14:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=840s) Is NATO membership still a big step
- [16:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=960s) Shared responsibility for the Baltics as the price of membership
- [18:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1080s) The NATO option and the case for not exercising it
- [20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1200s) The costs of the common currency and floating rates
- [22:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1320s) Returning to national currencies is not easy
- [24:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1440s) Poland and Sweden manage with their own currencies
- [26:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1560s) A constitution, institutions and defining power in the EU
- [28:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1680s) Poland and Hungary as recipients of the recovery package
- [30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1800s) Where the work on morality started: the ethics of layoffs
- [32:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1920s) Evolutionary background, altruism and cooperation
- [34:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=2040s) Adam Smith and Vernon Smith — two Smiths
- [36:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=2160s) The institutional layer and a deepening model of the human being

## Summary

Vesa Kanniainen, emeritus professor of economics, examines Finland's permanent security deficit and why he considers EU membership one of the most significant post-war security decisions the country has made — even though he is best known as a euro critic. The episode covers a game-theoretic reading of the YYA treaty, the NATO option and the price of exercising it as shared responsibility for the Baltics, the costs of the common currency and the parallel-currency idea, and Kanniainen's work at the boundary of morality and economics from Adam Smith to Vernon Smith.

## Chapters

- [**00:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=0s) — NATO needs Finland more than Finland needs NATO
- [**02:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=120s) — The security review and a game-theoretic reading of the YYA treaty
- [**04:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=240s) — Federation theory and fiscal federalism
- [**06:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=360s) — Good institutions as a precondition for federation
- [**08:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=480s) — Euro-scepticism and EU support are two different things
- [**10:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=600s) — Finland's security deficit and the scale of the EU
- [**12:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=720s) — Conscription and defence spending as a share of GDP
- [**14:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=840s) — Is NATO membership still a big step
- [**16:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=960s) — Shared responsibility for the Baltics as the price of membership
- [**18:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1080s) — The NATO option and the case for not exercising it
- [**20:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1200s) — The costs of the common currency and floating rates
- [**22:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1320s) — Returning to national currencies is not easy
- [**24:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1440s) — Poland and Sweden manage with their own currencies
- [**26:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1560s) — A constitution, institutions and defining power in the EU
- [**28:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1680s) — Poland and Hungary as recipients of the recovery package
- [**30:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1800s) — Where the work on morality started: the ethics of layoffs
- [**32:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=1920s) — Evolutionary background, altruism and cooperation
- [**34:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=2040s) — Adam Smith and Vernon Smith — two Smiths
- [**36:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY&t=2160s) — The institutional layer and a deepening model of the human being

## Watch

The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [#neuvottelija 33 - Turvallisuuspolitiikka EU:ssa, euro ja NATO (Vesa Kanniainen)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S8Ge7f4zGY).
A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/39-neuvottelija-33-turvallisuuspolitiikka-eussa-euro-ja-nato-ve).

---

Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija — Security policy, the euro and NATO | Vesa Kanniainen | Negotiator 33, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep33-turvallisuuspolitiikka-euro-ja-nato-vesa-kanniainen/, 2020-08-24. For quotes include episode 33 and timestamp.