---
title: "Charts on the Facts: Markka or Federation | Tuomas Malinen | Neuvottelija 24"
titleOriginal: "#neuvottelija 24 - Tuomas Malinen Faktakaaviot - Markka vai Liittovaltio?"
episodeNumber: "24"
guest: "Tuomas Malinen"
datePublished: 2020-06-18
duration: "16:44"
youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk"
captionsVtt: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep24-faktakaaviot-markka-vai-liittovaltio-tuomas-malinen/captions.en.vtt
captionsSrt: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep24-faktakaaviot-markka-vai-liittovaltio-tuomas-malinen/captions.en.srt
originalLanguage: "fi"
topics: ["finnish_economy_policy"]
subtitleMethod: "none"
provenance: "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata, the neuvottelija.fi episode record and the published Neuvottelija AI edition summary. No transcript imported."
fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/30-neuvottelija-24-tuomas-malinen-faktakaaviot-markka-vai-liitt"
canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep24-faktakaaviot-markka-vai-liittovaltio-tuomas-malinen/
---
# Charts on the Facts: Markka or Federation | Tuomas Malinen | Neuvottelija 24

## Chapters

- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=0s) The claim about fourteen percent rates in the markka era
- [01:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=100s) Finland's long rate tracking Sweden and the euro average
- [03:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=200s) Leaving the ERM and Sweden's five hundred percent rate
- [05:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=300s) The GnS simulation of the markka during the euro years
- [06:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=400s) A countercyclical safety valve and US federal taxes
- [08:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=500s) The EU's forty-two percent tax burden and the price of a federation
- [10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=600s) Net contributors transfers and how the US actually equalises
- [11:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=700s) Puerto Rico in restructuring and the broken no-bailout rule
- [13:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=800s) Brexit the net contribution and Italy turning recipient
- [15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=900s) Moral hazard and where ten percentage points would come from

## Summary

Tuomas Malinen of GnS Economics and Sami Miettinen work slide by slide through the most common misconceptions about an independent currency and an EU federation. The episode shows that Finnish interest rates were not exceptionally high during the markka era once the currency floated, and that the rate spike came from defending a fixed exchange rate rather than from having one's own money. The discussion presents the GnS simulation of how the markka would have moved during the euro years and its countercyclical effect, and compares US federal tax levels with the EU equivalent. It closes on Puerto Rico's debt restructuring, the broken no-bailout principle, and where a federation's ten-point tax increase would come from.

## Chapters

- [**00:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=0s) — The claim about fourteen percent rates in the markka era
- [**01:40**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=100s) — Finland's long rate tracking Sweden and the euro average
- [**03:20**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=200s) — Leaving the ERM and Sweden's five hundred percent rate
- [**05:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=300s) — The GnS simulation of the markka during the euro years
- [**06:40**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=400s) — A countercyclical safety valve and US federal taxes
- [**08:20**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=500s) — The EU's forty-two percent tax burden and the price of a federation
- [**10:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=600s) — Net contributors transfers and how the US actually equalises
- [**11:40**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=700s) — Puerto Rico in restructuring and the broken no-bailout rule
- [**13:20**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=800s) — Brexit the net contribution and Italy turning recipient
- [**15:00**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk&t=900s) — Moral hazard and where ten percentage points would come from

## Watch

The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [#neuvottelija 24 - Tuomas Malinen Faktakaaviot - Markka vai Liittovaltio?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvbawe09oZk).
A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/30-neuvottelija-24-tuomas-malinen-faktakaaviot-markka-vai-liitt).

---

Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija — Charts on the Facts: Markka or Federation | Tuomas Malinen | Neuvottelija 24, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep24-faktakaaviot-markka-vai-liittovaltio-tuomas-malinen/, 2020-06-18. For quotes include episode 24 and timestamp.