---
title: "Power grids and financing in good shape | Jyrki Tammivuori | Negotiator 205"
titleOriginal: "Carunan sähköverkot | Jyrki Tammivuori | Neuvottelija 205"
episodeNumber: "205"
guest: "Jyrki Tammivuori"
datePublished: 2023-08-05
duration: "45:12"
youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU"
originalLanguage: "fi"
topics: ["finnish_economy_policy","investing_markets"]
subtitleMethod: "none"
provenance: "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata, the neuvottelija.fi episode record and the publisher's own chapter marks, translated one for one; their spacing is irregular and matches the recording. No transcript is published here — the channel has no English caption track for this episode and the Finnish one is YouTube's automatic track. The guest is the chief executive of a regulated distribution monopoly commenting on his own regulatory model, and the host is a former banking counterparty of his; neither a regulator nor a consumer representative is present, which the long-form write-up in the Neuvottelija AI editions states."
fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/851-carunan-sahkoverkot-jyrki-tammivuori-neuvottelija-205"
canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep205-sahkoverkot-ja-rahoitus-kuntoon-jyrki-tammivuori/
---
# Power grids and financing in good shape | Jyrki Tammivuori | Negotiator 205

English subtitles are not available on this page. This is an episode summary, not a curated transcript.

## Chapters

- [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=0s) Jyrki Tammivuori, and an old banking relationship
- [00:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=55s) Stora Enso's revolver without covenants
- [02:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=144s) What covenants are, and why they suit Caruna
- [03:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=184s) Competing for capital, and how NATO membership helps
- [04:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=251s) Green bonds and the EU taxonomy
- [06:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=366s) One-month Euribor: good advice disguised as a joke
- [08:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=497s) A floating rate as a natural buffer
- [09:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=564s) Caruna's change of ownership and the interest controversy
- [10:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=631s) Electricity distribution is extremely capital-intensive
- [11:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=667s) 2.5 billion in debt and a BBB rating
- [12:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=733s) The storm controversy and a weather-proof grid
- [14:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=865s) How it all went this well
- [15:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=909s) A ten-year investment cycle
- [16:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=1015s) Finland's distribution is among the cheapest in Europe
- [17:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=1074s) A two-way grid, and panels on roofs
- [19:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=1146s) Bottlenecks in the network, and wind power in Ostrobothnia
- [19:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=1197s) One price area, flexibility and cross-border transfers
- [21:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=1277s) Electricity consumption grows by 50 per cent
- [23:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=1380s) Electric cars, night rates and smart consumption
- [24:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=1464s) Negative prices and growing volatility
- [26:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=1596s) The regulatory model and the WACC framework
- [28:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=1680s) Supervisory decisions for the next eight years
- [30:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=1839s) Owners: pension money from Finland, Sweden and Canada
- [32:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=1940s) A listing is unlikely
- [34:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=2051s) Caruna: half a billion in revenue, 1.5 million users
- [35:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=2107s) Fingrid as the motorway, distribution as the roads
- [37:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=2237s) Passing through transmission charges
- [39:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=2340s) The three thirds of an electricity bill
- [41:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=2494s) Who spot pricing suits
- [42:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=2552s) A message to the government
- [43:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=2618s) Why network companies do not compete for customers
- [44:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU&t=2693s) Closing words

## Summary

Caruna's chief executive Jyrki Tammivuori joins Sami Miettinen. Two former counterparties — a treasurer and the banker who covered him — work through first the evolution of financing documentation and then the power grid itself: weather-proofing requirements, two-way electricity, the bottlenecks in the network, and the WACC framework in the Energy Authority's regulatory model. Also 2.5 billion euros of debt at a BBB rating, electricity consumption expected to grow by half, and negative prices with rising volatility. The guest runs a regulated monopoly and comments on his own regulatory model.

## Why the financing half belongs with the grid half

Electricity distribution is extraordinarily capital-intensive — 2.5 billion euros of debt
at a BBB rating, on a ten-year investment cycle. The documentation, the covenants and the
choice between fixed and floating are therefore not a separate subject from the poles and
cables; they decide what can be built and when.

## The regulatory question the episode does not press

The WACC framework in the Energy Authority's model sets the allowed return and therefore
the investment. Hearing a monopoly's chief executive explain how it works is valuable; it
is also an interested account, and no regulator or consumer voice is present to test it.


## Watch

The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [Carunan sähköverkot | Jyrki Tammivuori | Neuvottelija 205](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35moZiuK2oU).
A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/851-carunan-sahkoverkot-jyrki-tammivuori-neuvottelija-205).

## In depth

The Neuvottelija AI editions carry a long-form write-up of this episode:
[English](https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep205-sahkoverkot-ja-rahoitus-kuntoon-jyrki-tammivuori/) · [suomeksi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/economy/ep205-sahkoverkot-ja-rahoitus-kuntoon-jyrki-tammivuori/).

---

Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija — Power grids and financing in good shape | Jyrki Tammivuori | Negotiator 205, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep205-sahkoverkot-ja-rahoitus-kuntoon-jyrki-tammivuori/, 2023-08-05. For quotes include episode 205 and timestamp.