---
title: "What Moves Stocks | Verneri Pulkkinen | Negotiator 169"
titleOriginal: "Mikä liikuttaa osakkeita | Verneri Pulkkinen | Neuvottelija 169"
episodeNumber: "169"
guest: "Verneri Pulkkinen"
datePublished: 2023-01-09
duration: "36:37"
youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0L1PpyaoQY"
originalLanguage: "fi"
topics: ["investing_markets"]
subtitleMethod: "none"
provenance: "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata and the neuvottelija.fi episode record. No chapter marks are published here: the publisher's list holds only two marks, at 0:00 and 0:44, and the second one's own text quotes a timestamp of 36:38 — it is a split of the show-note text rather than a chapter list, so republishing it would assert timestamps that do not hold. No transcript is published either — the channel has no English caption track for this episode and the Finnish one is YouTube's automatic track. The guest works for Inderes, which publishes equity research on companies discussed in the episode; nothing here is investment advice, and the valuation levels quoted are those of early 2023."
fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/248-mika-liikuttaa-osakkeita-verneri-pulkkinen-neuvottelija-169"
canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep169-mika-liikuttaa-osakkeita-verneri-pulkkinen/
---
# What Moves Stocks | Verneri Pulkkinen | Negotiator 169

English subtitles are not available on this page. This is an episode summary, not a curated transcript.

## Summary

Verneri Pulkkinen, head of content at the Finnish equity research house Inderes, works through why shares fell in 2022 even though company earnings rose. The answer is in monetary conditions rather than in the companies: tightening and rising rates hit growth stocks and the pandemic-era bubble hardest, and the discount rate did the work that earnings did not. The conversation runs from Howard Marks's third sea change to the Buffett indicator and on to how large a share of their wealth people are actually willing to hold in equities. Pulkkinen also weighs Germany's unexpected resilience through the energy crisis, the real risk of a wage spiral, and the collapse in technology valuations.

## Prices fell, profits rose

That single pairing is the episode's organising fact. If earnings went up and the index went down, the explanation cannot be the companies — it has to be the rate at which their future earnings are discounted. Everything else in the conversation hangs off that.

## Duration is what got repriced

Rising rates do not hit a market evenly. The further out a company's cash flows sit, the more a higher discount rate takes off their present value, which is why growth names and the pandemic-era bubble bore the losses while shorter-duration businesses did not.

## The behavioural ceiling

Pulkkinen's more unusual point is about the denominator: there is a limit to how much of their wealth people will hold in equities regardless of what the models say it is worth, and that limit does more to set the market's level than most valuation arguments admit.


## Watch

The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [Mikä liikuttaa osakkeita | Verneri Pulkkinen | Neuvottelija 169](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0L1PpyaoQY).
A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/248-mika-liikuttaa-osakkeita-verneri-pulkkinen-neuvottelija-169).

## In depth

The Neuvottelija AI editions carry a long-form write-up of this episode:
[English](https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep169-mika-liikuttaa-osakkeita-verneri-pulkkinen/) · [suomeksi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/economy/ep169-mika-liikuttaa-osakkeita-verneri-pulkkinen/).

---

Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija — What Moves Stocks | Verneri Pulkkinen | Negotiator 169, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep169-mika-liikuttaa-osakkeita-verneri-pulkkinen/, 2023-01-09. For quotes include episode 169 and timestamp.