---
title: "The Market Is Going Up | Kevin van Dessel and Teemu Liila | Negotiator 164"
titleOriginal: "Pörssi nousee! | Kevin van Dessel Teemu Liila | Neuvottelija 164"
episodeNumber: "164"
guest: "Kevin van Dessel, Teemu Liila"
datePublished: 2022-12-02
duration: "44:27"
youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2T6njqcwRk"
originalLanguage: "fi"
topics: ["investing_markets"]
subtitleMethod: "none"
provenance: "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata and the neuvottelija.fi episode record. No chapter marks are published here: the publisher's list holds only two marks, at 0:00 and 1:01, and the second one's own text quotes a timestamp of 44:27 — it is a split of the show-note text rather than a chapter list, so republishing it would assert timestamps that do not hold. No transcript is published either — the channel has no English caption track for this episode and the Finnish one is YouTube's automatic track. The guests present the bull case deliberately, as a position rather than a forecast, and the episode says so; nothing in it is investment advice, and the market levels discussed are those of late 2022."
fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/236-porssi-nousee-kevin-van-dessel-teemu-liila-neuvottelija-164"
canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep164-porssi-nousee-van-dessel-liila/
---
# The Market Is Going Up | Kevin van Dessel and Teemu Liila | Negotiator 164

English subtitles are not available on this page. This is an episode summary, not a curated transcript.

## Summary

Kevin van Dessel and Teemu Liila of the Sijoituskästi podcast set out to build a bull case at a moment when most listeners were expecting further falls. The conversation covers the turn in the rate cycle, what kind of inflation this is, and why the equity market prices the real economy roughly six months ahead of it. The guests take apart the triad of growth, value and quality and argue that a high policy rate is an opportunity for a growth investor rather than an obstacle. Leverage, record cash weightings, the closed IPO window and the winner's curse all get a turn. It ends on popular capitalism, how thin Finnish household equity wealth is, and why good news does not reliably lift a share price.

## An argued position, not a prediction

The two guests take the bull side on purpose, at a point when the consensus was still looking down. Read as a forecast that would be a strange thing to publish; read as an argument — here is the strongest case the other side can make — it is the more useful format, and it is the one the episode intends.

## Six months ahead

The market prices the economy it expects, not the one being reported. That lag is why a recovery in share prices can arrive while the macro data is still deteriorating, and it is the mechanical core of the bull case here.

## Rates and growth companies

A higher policy rate lowers the present value of distant cash flows without touching the business that produces them. Van Dessel and Liila's conclusion — that this is an opportunity for someone buying growth rather than a reason to avoid it — depends entirely on the business actually surviving the wait.


## Watch

The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [Pörssi nousee! | Kevin van Dessel Teemu Liila | Neuvottelija 164](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2T6njqcwRk).
A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/236-porssi-nousee-kevin-van-dessel-teemu-liila-neuvottelija-164).

## In depth

The Neuvottelija AI editions carry a long-form write-up of this episode:
[English](https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep164-porssi-nousee-van-dessel-liila/) · [suomeksi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/economy/ep164-porssi-nousee-van-dessel-liila/).

---

Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija — The Market Is Going Up | Kevin van Dessel and Teemu Liila | Negotiator 164, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep164-porssi-nousee-van-dessel-liila/, 2022-12-02. For quotes include episode 164 and timestamp.