--- title: "Investor Relations | Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo and Ulla Paajanen | Negotiator 137" titleOriginal: "Sijoittajasuhteet | Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo Ulla Paajanen | Neuvottelija 137" episodeNumber: "137" guest: "Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo, Ulla Paajanen" datePublished: 2022-05-15 duration: "50:07" youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w" originalLanguage: "fi" topics: ["ownership_capital_tax","leadership_governance","investing_markets"] subtitleMethod: "none" provenance: "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata, the neuvottelija.fi episode record and the publisher's own chapter marks, translated one for one. The marks are genuine: ten of them, with gaps from 88 to nearly 600 seconds, tracking the recording rather than a grid; the last one's Finnish text carries a stray 50:08 prefix that does not match its own position, and it has been dropped in translation because the mark's own timestamp is what is published. No transcript is published here โ€” the channel has no English caption track for this episode and the Finnish one is YouTube's automatic track. One guest is Nokia's former chief executive and discusses Nokia, including its present leadership; the other was Stora Enso's investor relations director at the time. The host works in corporate finance, and investment bank relationships are discussed directly. The Nokian Tyres and Russia passages are from spring 2022 and have been overtaken." fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/186-sijoittajasuhteet-olli-pekka-kallasvuo-ulla-paajanen-neuvott" canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep137-sijoittajasuhteet-kallasvuo-paajanen/ --- # Investor Relations | Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo and Ulla Paajanen | Negotiator 137 English subtitles are not available on this page. This is an episode summary, not a curated transcript. ## Chapters - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w&t=0s) Introductions, and the old mania for business flying. Strange airports around the world: Schiphol, Charles de Gaulle, Malpensa. How the world changed with the Covid crisis - [08:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w&t=510s) The difference between Finnish and American investor relations; Nokia's investment banking relationship with Credit Suisse First Boston; the banker Beau Mathieu - [09:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w&t=598s) The annual cycle of communication and the special situations; how senior management and communications specialists spend their time on it; planning communication properly - [12:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w&t=740s) Capital Markets Day, Bankers Day and one-on-one meetings with investors. CMD themes such as biodiversity and ESG - [16:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w&t=984s) Whether investor relations suits people without a commercial degree: lawyers against investment bankers - [19:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w&t=1149s) Investor relations seen from the board. Large ESG problems: Telia leaving its Eurasian business on ethical grounds; Nokian Tyres' share offering and its Russia problems in 2022; what financial targets do for management; Nokia's profit warnings; Nokia's present leadership - [24:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w&t=1474s) Combining leisure with business life, and what the childhood home does for one's interests. London football culture. Horses, harness racing and riding. Hunting - [29:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w&t=1780s) What informal occasions and evening events do for investor communication. Code names and secrecy in acquisition projects: Iceberg, Snowman - [36:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w&t=2190s) ESG, Sarbanes-Oxley and the effect of the worldwide shift to compliance. The distorted sense of time in growth companies - [46:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w&t=2787s) Equity analysts becoming more professional: star analysts against young analysts in training ## Summary How much of senior management's time is worth spending on investor relations, and what changed in the work when Covid ended flying overnight? Nokia's former chief executive Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo and Stora Enso's long-serving investor relations director Ulla Paajanen open up the annual cycle of investor communication, the role of Capital Markets Days, and the use of guidance as an instrument of management. Kallasvuo argues that a Finnish chief executive spends several times as much time in investor meetings as an American one. Paajanen recalls the day a competitor's cartel disclosure caught her at an airport in an analyst's company. ## Why a Finnish chief executive travels more Kallasvuo's claim is comparative and structural: a company listed in Helsinki has to go to its investors, because they are not concentrated where it is. An American peer can let the market come to it. Read that way the time difference is a cost of the listing venue rather than a choice anyone made. ## Guidance points both ways A published financial target tells the market what to expect and tells the organisation what to deliver. Because it does both, withdrawing it is not only a communication event โ€” it also removes an instrument management was steering with, which is why companies hold onto guidance past the point where it is credible. ## The part that cannot be scheduled The annual cycle is planned a year ahead and the cartel disclosure arrives while you are at an airport with an analyst. Paajanen's anecdote is the whole argument for how the function should be resourced: for the days that are not in the calendar. ## Watch The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [Sijoittajasuhteet | Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo Ulla Paajanen | Neuvottelija 137](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teA4HvpNj2w). A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/186-sijoittajasuhteet-olli-pekka-kallasvuo-ulla-paajanen-neuvott). ## In depth The Neuvottelija AI editions carry a long-form write-up of this episode: [English](https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep137-sijoittajasuhteet-kallasvuo-paajanen/) ยท [suomeksi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/economy/ep137-sijoittajasuhteet-kallasvuo-paajanen/). --- Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija โ€” Investor Relations | Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo and Ulla Paajanen | Negotiator 137, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep137-sijoittajasuhteet-kallasvuo-paajanen/, 2022-05-15. For quotes include episode 137 and timestamp.