---
title: "ECB Rule Changes | Antti Ronkainen and Vesa Vihriälä | Negotiator 111"
titleOriginal: "EKP Sääntömuutokset | Antti Ronkainen Vesa Vihriälä | Neuvottelija 111"
episodeNumber: "111"
guest: "Antti Ronkainen, Vesa Vihriälä"
datePublished: 2021-12-11
duration: "44:23"
youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNGomTDx6X0"
originalLanguage: "fi"
topics: ["finnish_economy_policy","geopolitics"]
subtitleMethod: "none"
provenance: "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata and the neuvottelija.fi episode record. The publisher published no chapter marks for this episode, so none are listed here. No transcript is published either — the channel has no English caption track for this episode and the Finnish one is YouTube's automatic track. The two guests approach the euro area's rules from different positions and the episode is better for it, but both are academic economists and no policymaker is present to answer for the institutions described. Recorded 11 December 2021, before the 2022 rate cycle and the subsequent revision of the fiscal framework."
fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/135-ekp-saantomuutokset-antti-ronkainen-vesa-vihriala-neuvotteli"
canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep111-ekp-saantomuutokset-ronkainen-vihriala/
---
# ECB Rule Changes | Antti Ronkainen and Vesa Vihriälä | Negotiator 111

English subtitles are not available on this page. This is an episode summary, not a curated transcript.

## Summary

Vesa Vihriälä, professor of practice at the University of Helsinki, and the doctoral researcher Antti Ronkainen go through what is left of the euro area's fiscal rules. The starting point is bleak: the sixty per cent debt limit has not restrained member states for a long time, and the three per cent deficit rule failed on both sides — the preventive arm did not stop over-indebtedness, and the corrective arm produced, during the euro crisis, a fiscal policy tight enough to cause a self-inflicted recession in 2011 and 2012. The sharpest thread concerns the European Central Bank, which through creative reinterpretation became a lender of last resort to states.

## A rule that failed twice

The three per cent ceiling is usually criticised for being ignored. The stronger case made here is that it failed in both of its functions: it did not prevent debt from accumulating, and when it was finally enforced it forced a contraction at the worst possible moment. A rule that is both too loose and too tight is not a rule that needs better enforcement.

## A recession the framework caused

The 2011 and 2012 downturn is attributed here to the corrective arm rather than to any member state's policy. That is a specific and checkable claim, and it is the strongest thing in the episode.

## Lender of last resort by reinterpretation

The ECB arrived at that role through successive readings of its own mandate rather than through any change to it. The arrangement therefore rests on the interpretation continuing to hold, which is a different kind of durability from a treaty provision.


## Watch

The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [EKP Sääntömuutokset | Antti Ronkainen Vesa Vihriälä | Neuvottelija 111](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNGomTDx6X0).
A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/135-ekp-saantomuutokset-antti-ronkainen-vesa-vihriala-neuvotteli).

## In depth

The Neuvottelija AI editions carry a long-form write-up of this episode:
[English](https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep111-ekp-saantomuutokset-ronkainen-vihriala/) · [suomeksi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/economy/ep111-ekp-saantomuutokset-ronkainen-vihriala/).

## Explore the ideas in depth

- [Negotiation Strategy, Leverage and Power: Reading the Counterparty You Actually Have](https://www.neuvottelija.com/guides/negotiation-strategy-leverage-and-power/): A negotiation guide from the co-author of Neuvotteluvalta — the sources of leverage, BATNA and anchoring in practice, using information asymmetry, breaking deadlocks, and what to do when the counterparty negotiates on power rather than consensus. Grounded in Neuvottelija conversations and two decades of negotiation writing.

---

Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija — ECB Rule Changes | Antti Ronkainen and Vesa Vihriälä | Negotiator 111, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep111-ekp-saantomuutokset-ronkainen-vihriala/, 2021-12-11. For quotes include episode 111 and timestamp.