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Well, welcome Rami Kurimo, co-founder of Puheenaihe media.

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Moro. Moro. And today we're talking about a mysterious situation

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that must have been resolved while filming this.

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So you have these episodes, how many hundreds are there now?

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So 681 or two I think are out. Yeah, tough.

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I'm going to break 400 so these long episodes and short ones

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of course, but two of those episodes,

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long episodes, were censored according to one interpretation and you

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even got into the Finnish media with that and then into this Swedish media

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with the question of whether it was censorship.

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And that theory was actually pretty good,

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because this first episode was episode 570, it dealt with CSAM and cybersecurity

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and the EU's right to monitor or oblige

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platforms to remove various things, so What are the odds of that!

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that this particular episode will be removed.

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Yes, that arrangement was undeniably very special and precisely

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because YouTube didn't offer any explanation for it at the beginning,

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that just such an episode,

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where this popular chat control

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is critically examined, you could say legislation,

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so just why it was then blocked in the EU area. Yeah.

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Maybe then you'll give a description of what's really happening,

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so another theme that's being discussed is this Hesarin Annastiina Kallius

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wrote this essay,

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in which the far-right media was condemned in harsh words and in honor of that we have Ivan

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Puopoloja, 23 minutes and Roni Arvonen,

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who was a guest here then of course Otto Juotte, these two, aka

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Tuomas Enbusken,

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this whole Finland rising and then with Jari Kuikanmäki, This fifth

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power, where corona theories were talked about by the way.

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Jari has written a book. But we didn't get there then.

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Are we now saying that we're not far-right media?

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We are clearly not the media

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if Hesar's article doesn't mention us and Hesar's truth is the whole

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truth. Yeah, this is a bit related.

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So, we now have a giant publishing platform, YouTube,

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which then coincidentally just when the CSAM topic is being discussed and important

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legislative projects are underway,

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removes two episodes and then on the other hand, this so-called

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mainstream media here, when filming this, asks a columnist

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to condemn it,

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that like our media, but like this, the media of cups,

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it even causes people to vomit,

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have headaches and nausea.

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That's sometimes the case,

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but tell me now what really happens to those two episodes that disappeared

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.

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Yeah, you could actually start with this timeline,

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so it might be easier to keep up.

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So, when the EU voted on this chat room recently,

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Leevi was in episode number 570 with the title EU and Cesam big brother

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is watching you.

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It was a joke and then for some reason the episode wasn't

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viewable normally and someone had come to comment on Leivi's

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X post. That was why it was an interesting arrangement,

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because for Leivi and me, the episode was still

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viewable on YouTube normally even though we were

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logged in with the usernames of the topic in question

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. And then when I started to investigate, I discovered

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that this particular episode is still there, but the thing is that

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it is blocked in EU countries,

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although it was not for every user,

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and then later I found out

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that some users in EU countries could watch it,

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but then when I used a couple of different tools like this one on the internet

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,

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which allow you to see whether the episodes are normally

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visible or not,

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then based on both of them, it seemed

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that

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this particular episode was blocked in EU countries and then in Finland too, if

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you used a browser or a VPN,

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you could watch this episode or actually both episodes

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normally. Etc.

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And what made this a special special arrangement was that

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these episodes were still available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

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normally visible and and just that

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when in this episode number 570 the topic is EU mass surveillance and

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then this chat control is critically reviewed and the chat control

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is being voted on or has been voted on and still someone could say

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that in a slightly questionable way,

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because in that one vote the majority of

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the people who voted

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voted against the chat, but despite that it went through.

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Well it's like a voting technical thing and maybe you could go

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through that later,

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but in any case you voted on it like the way this chat now

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or its chat control 1.

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0 continuation was put through, then someone could say

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that it itself was questionable,

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so that arrangement arrangement is just time now I could say delicious. Yeah.

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And before you continue this timeline,

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this came to me, so you're also in the

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insider circle there,

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so you were probably there, this had probably been left out,

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so you had gotten this story through both Iltasanomat and this Swedish media

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quarter,

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then by chance just when this got a little bit of international

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media visibility,

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then this thing started to become clear like this

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after a long wait. Yes, it's quite possible that now it would be

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that Iltasanomat reacted to it and then this Swedish quarter,

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because that Mikko Ohtama had posted about this in English on X and that

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Mikko's post had received over 800,000 views. It

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's clearly of international interest.

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Now, of course, it's a really opportune time and so I have to say thanks to Mik Mikko

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for this.

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oh but it is very possible or so first of all that it is it is very

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likely

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that the quarter reacted to this matter precisely because of the Mikon post and

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then it is quite possible

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that this matter progressed a little faster on YouTube

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too because the quarter was also asked then from YouTube,

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what is this you are asking or from Google, what is this?

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Well but now we have some kind of hypothesis,

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what really happened.

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So the quite logical interpretation was that could it be a coincidence

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that at the very moment when important votes are being made about the sea,

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information that is critical of it is just blocked from EU

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citizens, so yes it now sounds a bit like

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what are the odds of that.

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But apparently a benevolent interpretation can be found, that

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there is a proper explanation for this, that is, from YouTube's own

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procedures.

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Yes, in my opinion, there is or so in this matter I think there is no

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reason to doubt that the explanation that YouTube offered then

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is not completely watertight. And the reason was

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that in both of these episodes there were advertisements for our election podcast episode

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. So they were for two different episodes,

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but anyway, they had

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advertisements for the Vaipod episode and then because of that, probably it was me, so

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I had set the settings so that the episode contains political advertising,

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even though the political definition of political advertising

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on YouTube itself is a bit unclear and vague and there

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seems to be a bit of a grey area,

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as to what is political advertising and

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what is not when it is commercial,

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but anyway, I had put it on just to be sure.

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Well, when I had put it on,

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it didn't affect the issue and the episodes could be viewed normally.

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But then last year, in the fall of 2025,

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I don't actually mean a month,

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but it was then that the situation had changed to the point

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that, as I recall, YouTube said

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that because legislation has come into force or is coming into force in the EU

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, then all episodes

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that contain political advertising or where the creator

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himself has said

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that they contain political advertising or clicked on that regulation,

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then they will be blocked in the EU.

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M and this in my opinion, well, first of all, this in itself was completely

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understandable and logical, but then what you can say

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that you could make sure of was

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that when you cut out these ads,

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YouTube has this internal tool

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that you can use to cut out certain things from that episode.

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Then when you took those ads out and then chose in the settings

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that they no longer contain political advertising,

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then immediately after that they were viewable with a direct link

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and then a few hours later,

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they were searchable again. Mhm.

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So in itself, YouTube's explanation in my opinion was completely

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logical.

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What makes this happen, from our perspective, or

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where is it, maybe the problem, or why did those

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questions arise, was precisely

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because, first of all, YouTube didn't know

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what it was about at first. you have to wait a few days and then the fact

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that because there, like from YouTube studio, there was nothing

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like that, like it didn't clearly show that these episodes are now

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blogged and then the setting where if you think about it, like the

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setting that these episodes contain political mentions and advertising,

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there wasn't any such announcement in there either,

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that now because of that they are not visible in the EU area.

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but you had to dig a little further into it. Yeah,

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it was quite common for that softblock to do that episode

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earlier. So this studio was also acquired by Ivan Puopalo,

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so I was often on this weekly wisdom program,

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which was mentioned in this Hesar essay

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as a representative of this kind of media,

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so there were undoubtedly quite a lot of such colorful words there,

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which were suitable for the language of a civilized bourgeois,

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so then YouTube made these soft bands,

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so it removed that advertising revenue from Ivan and then since Ivan is

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a capitalist,

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it probably looked for them and pinged them and published them again.

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And here there is a somewhat similar perverse phenomenon,

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that yes, you notice that there is no illusion, that's it,

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but it is still really annoying and really effective like

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this soft band. But then it's maybe even more twisted,

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in that in a way you don't really know where

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this is available geographically,

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but somewhere it's still rolling.

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And then you might get a feeling that no one is interested and

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so off topic, that maybe that's a bit well-intentioned.

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Let's take Google's explanation here at face value,

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then it's probably not worth

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clicking on political advertising like that anymore,

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that it's probably a bit like when you tell the bank

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that you have political connections and do you have an account in America,

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so that leads to quite a lot of bureaucracy

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when you click on them. Yeah.

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And so it's true that when I read the YouTube description,

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what counts as political advertising,

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it wouldn't necessarily have been fulfilled in them,

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because in those places we weren't advertising the candidate ourselves,

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but we were advertising an episode where this candidate was a guest.

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of course that episode was a paid advertisement so

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it was paid commercial cooperation but that's not when we then offer that

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opportunity to all candidates equally. Yeah.

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But it's just that because like Leivi, who makes these episodes,

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no Leevi is not telling anyone

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that you shouldn't vote for this or that in that episode.

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That's just like offering an opportunity for discussion. Yeah.

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We can actually go down that rabbit hole too.

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So yeah this is like this now maybe a little warmer than this traditional

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media and this Hesar essay, that you like this commercial cooperation,

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that there's like it's quite good, that they say when someone gives you money,

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then it says there that even if it's YouTube's own tag

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commercial cooperation, now it has expanded so much

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that it should always have a banner that is burned,

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that this commercial cooperation is something else, just like in that video, it would be

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like that hobby in the media industry and it is a bit unclear

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what kind of whipping you will get

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if you don't then submit to this.

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On the other hand, if you have a traditional media

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broadcast like YouTube, there is really

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nothing like a hint

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that left-wing causes are being promoted here or something like that,

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but it is an interesting case that the Swedes are quite good,

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that this quarter and this is yours, is it the guy

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who made this post, from which it got there,

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so are these influential parties in this freedom of speech

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battle scene? Well Mikko Ohtama can say

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that it is very strong, so you could say that it is

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more active in the crypto scene,

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but that it is, it has then taken a very strong stance on this,

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both on crypto legislation and also on

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legislation in general regarding privacy and then this is also related to

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things like digital euros, digital IDs, and that type of thing.

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Quarterly, I must say that it was a media

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that I had never heard of before. For example, that yes,

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but in that article it probably had an international focus

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and it was very critical.

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Of course, it picked up this first theory,

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that is, that episode 570 dealt directly with CSAM and the EU's other

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EU attempts to get to the level of private communication,

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so those points were raised from there and I just remembered that they had

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00:14:13.842 --> 00:14:15.042
raised

250
00:14:15.092 --> 00:14:18.166
that here it was discussed not so critically as such,

251
00:14:18.246 --> 00:14:19.767
but so factually,

252
00:14:19.847 --> 00:14:23.771
that in Finland, for example, there are these fact-checker-type

253
00:14:23.851 --> 00:14:27.432
organisations that get to join this alliance and could it be

254
00:14:27.512 --> 00:14:31.607
that these, in a way, who monitors the monitors, so they didn't go into

255
00:14:31.687 --> 00:14:33.438
a bit of a rabbit hole,

256
00:14:33.518 --> 00:14:37.384
that there could be these parties here, these parties could be

257
00:14:37.464 --> 00:14:38.664
behind this censorship,

258
00:14:38.714 --> 00:14:41.674
but these

259
00:14:41.754 --> 00:14:44.362
, So the arrangement itself,

260
00:14:44.442 --> 00:14:47.337
that there are these so-called trusted flaggers,

261
00:14:47.417 --> 00:14:51.455
which in Finland are three, two associations and one company, can

262
00:14:51.535 --> 00:14:55.173
rightly ask, is this now, is this now right,

263
00:14:55.253 --> 00:14:57.575
that there is some entity that monitors the internet,

264
00:14:57.655 --> 00:14:59.920
which is not an authority, though. There are

265
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:04.351
two, so they are associations and then a company, and then they have more

266
00:15:04.431 --> 00:15:08.905
rights than others or they have been given some specific rights,

267
00:15:08.985 --> 00:15:13.335
so you can think about whether this is a meaningful system and

268
00:15:13.415 --> 00:15:17.582
then what if those associations and companies have

269
00:15:17.662 --> 00:15:18.862
some interests of their own,

270
00:15:18.912 --> 00:15:22.382
can they then abuse their own position?

271
00:15:22.462 --> 00:15:26.874
For example, pressing the button that this section talking about them should be removed.

272
00:15:26.954 --> 00:15:30.443
so even though nothing like that has happened here,

273
00:15:30.523 --> 00:15:33.951
but still the situation that it could not be like that,

274
00:15:34.031 --> 00:15:37.643
in my opinion it is no or that if there is such power,

275
00:15:37.723 --> 00:15:39.551
can it be misused,

276
00:15:39.631 --> 00:15:43.612
in my opinion it is that it is that which is always good to think about.

277
00:15:43.692 --> 00:15:47.920
In my opinion it is more broadly related to this or if I think about

278
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.735
my own personal opinion regarding this mass surveillance,

279
00:15:51.815 --> 00:15:54.874
so yes it would really be worth thinking about that

280
00:15:54.954 --> 00:15:59.182
in what all ways mass surveillance is being implemented and

281
00:15:59.262 --> 00:16:00.462
therefore everything

282
00:16:00.512 --> 00:16:03.595
that certain people are trying to get through.

283
00:16:03.675 --> 00:16:06.383
And how how it could be misused.

284
00:16:06.463 --> 00:16:08.537
that in a certain way I understand

285
00:16:08.617 --> 00:16:12.338
that many politicians also genuinely have this opinion,

286
00:16:12.418 --> 00:16:14.492
that or may genuinely think that

287
00:16:14.572 --> 00:16:18.674
now we are on the side of children and then we do

288
00:16:18.754 --> 00:16:19.954
things like that,

289
00:16:20.004 --> 00:16:23.362
that we would not get this material related to the use of such and such a child for the benefit of children

290
00:16:23.442 --> 00:16:27.988
off the internet and in my opinion that is basically a good

291
00:16:28.068 --> 00:16:30.459
goal. At the same time it is important to think about,

292
00:16:30.539 --> 00:16:33.943
It's not what it is, it's not how it's being done,

293
00:16:34.023 --> 00:16:37.428
it's not really effective and what's the cost,

294
00:16:37.508 --> 00:16:41.736
because for example, what we've discussed in Finland

295
00:16:41.816 --> 00:16:46.425
with people who have expertise in this, they say

296
00:16:46.505 --> 00:16:50.796
that that material is still on the internet. Etc.

297
00:16:50.876 --> 00:16:55.168
Then if we just interfere with normal

298
00:16:55.248 --> 00:16:59.540
communication between people with these like WhatsApp or

299
00:16:59.620 --> 00:17:00.820
these

300
00:17:00.870 --> 00:17:02.939
like commonly used media,

301
00:17:03.019 --> 00:17:05.517
it won't have a practical effect,

302
00:17:05.597 --> 00:17:09.983
because the material produced by criminals will spread elsewhere.

303
00:17:10.063 --> 00:17:12.121
And then the other thing is that

304
00:17:12.201 --> 00:17:16.650
even though there are certainly many or quite a few who probably

305
00:17:16.730 --> 00:17:19.668
think that it wouldn't be a good thing

306
00:17:19.748 --> 00:17:22.750
to prevent the spread of this kind of material,

307
00:17:22.830 --> 00:17:27.027
the biggest problem is precisely its production and the fact that it's not

308
00:17:27.107 --> 00:17:30.486
created in the first place and that's where we should intervene.

309
00:17:30.566 --> 00:17:33.316
So here it's a bit like a situation

310
00:17:33.396 --> 00:17:37.782
where now politicians are getting or politicians are trying to

311
00:17:37.862 --> 00:17:40.612
use this to communicate to citizens and voters

312
00:17:40.692 --> 00:17:44.260
that we're doing this here, we're taking this seriously.

313
00:17:44.340 --> 00:17:46.712
But then if the truth is that

314
00:17:46.792 --> 00:17:50.738
this reality is not fixing the problem and at

315
00:17:50.818 --> 00:17:54.008
the same time people's privacy is being weakened,

316
00:17:54.088 --> 00:17:56.964
then it's just a patch

317
00:17:57.044 --> 00:17:59.920
that's in the wrong place from the start.

318
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.409
Do you remember that Great Britain was one of those blogged countries,

319
00:18:04.489 --> 00:18:08.202
that this is a bit related, because this can be discussed,

320
00:18:08.282 --> 00:18:12.312
that this is now an EU problem only? As far as I remember, it wasn't.

321
00:18:12.392 --> 00:18:16.738
But Great Britain hasn't been particularly well-established in this

322
00:18:16.818 --> 00:18:18.951
kind of freedom of speech rights.

323
00:18:19.031 --> 00:18:23.439
For example, when describing this, Päivi Räsänen is not allowed

324
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:24.719
to travel to England,

325
00:18:24.784 --> 00:18:28.308
that she's against it, and Tynkyke probably had the same thing.

326
00:18:28.388 --> 00:18:31.153
Yeah, it was undesirable for it to come.

327
00:18:31.233 --> 00:18:35.831
But but but yeah, this is actually a very central central

328
00:18:35.911 --> 00:18:40.384
thing, that leaving the EU in itself does not automatically mean

329
00:18:40.464 --> 00:18:43.355
that freedom of speech and privacy would not be better.

330
00:18:43.435 --> 00:18:46.453
Although my personal opinion is

331
00:18:46.533 --> 00:18:50.436
that if the EU is moving more and more towards this police state,

332
00:18:50.516 --> 00:18:54.925
then Finns should really think about whether we want to be

333
00:18:55.005 --> 00:18:56.205
part of it.

334
00:18:56.255 --> 00:18:59.920
Do we want Brussels to be monitoring Finns?

335
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.331
But leaving the EU

336
00:19:02.411 --> 00:19:05.880
does not automatically guarantee good things.

337
00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.362
And Britain is a very good example of

338
00:19:09.442 --> 00:19:14.116
that, because in Britain, I mean,

339
00:19:14.196 --> 00:19:18.737
when people are put there, there is a non-hate crime

340
00:19:18.817 --> 00:19:23.491
law that kind of prosecutes people for tweets

341
00:19:23.571 --> 00:19:27.844
because they are a little bit like inciting

342
00:19:27.924 --> 00:19:31.594
a group of people. In Finland, there is a special

343
00:19:31.674 --> 00:19:36.549
interpretation of freedom of speech that can then prevent certain unwanted

344
00:19:36.629 --> 00:19:40.032
expressions of opinion in public with criminal law,

345
00:19:40.112 --> 00:19:44.384
which is, and so that article is a bit of a joke.

346
00:19:44.464 --> 00:19:48.938
But actually, in terms of this and end-to-end encrypted

347
00:19:49.018 --> 00:19:53.625
messages, in general, my understanding when describing this is

348
00:19:53.705 --> 00:19:56.907
that in end-to-end encrypted communication channels,

349
00:19:56.987 --> 00:19:59.920
even now Signal and WhatsApp, there is no

350
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.200
problem.

351
00:20:01.250 --> 00:20:04.722
So it is very difficult to get these under EU control anymore,

352
00:20:04.802 --> 00:20:08.552
because the member states voted against it,

353
00:20:08.632 --> 00:20:12.686
which tried to get these into the previously valid

354
00:20:12.766 --> 00:20:13.966
directive.

355
00:20:14.016 --> 00:20:17.853
So child protection is like generally accepted directives.

356
00:20:17.933 --> 00:20:22.291
Based on them then these things are not allowed to be heard on encrypted channels

357
00:20:22.371 --> 00:20:26.546
all communication has been monitored and this this this then they tried

358
00:20:26.626 --> 00:20:30.862
to get this to continue but that too as described it is a bit

359
00:20:30.942 --> 00:20:35.300
unclear whether even that will continue but like this as a general rule

360
00:20:35.380 --> 00:20:39.434
all sensible people use those tools that have been driven into their heads anyway

361
00:20:39.514 --> 00:20:43.811
and then it has to be a bit really quite a silly discussion that you

362
00:20:43.891 --> 00:20:47.944
you put nothing on encrypted channels but then hardened

363
00:20:48.024 --> 00:20:50.315
criminals and even those

364
00:20:50.395 --> 00:20:53.476
who are still perverts and children in terms of exploitation,

365
00:20:53.556 --> 00:20:55.725
then they will surely understand

366
00:20:55.805 --> 00:20:59.920
that they are not on these crappy channels and that material.

367
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.391
So now we are trying to solve this problem

368
00:21:04.471 --> 00:21:08.926
by taking ordinary people into this censorship

369
00:21:09.006 --> 00:21:10.206
,

370
00:21:10.256 --> 00:21:13.721
which then these criminals will not use that channel.

371
00:21:13.801 --> 00:21:15.536
This is my little theory.

372
00:21:15.616 --> 00:21:19.229
It has been a bit of a useless fight all this time. Among other things

373
00:21:19.309 --> 00:21:22.663
, what is good to remember here is that simply

374
00:21:22.743 --> 00:21:27.458
securing the end-to-end encryption, which is absolutely important, means

375
00:21:27.538 --> 00:21:31.605
that if it were required or if the EU were to push through something like this,

376
00:21:31.685 --> 00:21:35.428
that a backdoor must be installed in the end-to-end encryption,

377
00:21:35.508 --> 00:21:37.695
then that would mean that

378
00:21:37.775 --> 00:21:42.490
all criminals, including all intelligence services of foreign countries,

379
00:21:42.570 --> 00:21:44.823
would also be able to use that backdoor,

380
00:21:44.903 --> 00:21:49.618
so that it would not be like this, like if it were done correctly, it would

381
00:21:49.698 --> 00:21:52.987
then provide a service to all malicious people

382
00:21:53.067 --> 00:21:57.328
who also want to access that whole exchange of messages,

383
00:21:57.408 --> 00:21:59.920
but that end-to-end encryption, as I

384
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.061
understand it, is not enough in itself,

385
00:22:02.141 --> 00:22:05.212
that it would be theoretically possible and it may be

386
00:22:05.292 --> 00:22:08.840
that there are certain parties in the EU that are trying to push for this,

387
00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:12.943
so that the surveillance would then be put on a slightly

388
00:22:13.023 --> 00:22:14.223
higher level.

389
00:22:14.273 --> 00:22:17.997
In other words, so that the phone would not, in a certain sense, monitor everything

390
00:22:18.077 --> 00:22:20.316
that happens inside the phone.

391
00:22:20.396 --> 00:22:24.657
So then the thing is that the communication itself is to get the evil encrypted,

392
00:22:24.737 --> 00:22:27.095
so that doesn't help and isn't enough,

393
00:22:27.175 --> 00:22:30.188
because if what the phone does can be monitored,

394
00:22:30.268 --> 00:22:33.161
then then in a way it would let Yeah,

395
00:22:33.241 --> 00:22:36.312
but that wouldn't lead to the problem you mentioned,

396
00:22:36.392 --> 00:22:40.416
that in the same way the phone or device like that plugin

397
00:22:40.496 --> 00:22:43.924
would then be accessible to evil parties again, so

398
00:22:44.004 --> 00:22:48.205
that it wouldn't help anything or it probably just sounds like

399
00:22:48.285 --> 00:22:49.514
a really stupid idea.

400
00:22:49.594 --> 00:22:53.855
Otherwise, I don't really trust those people's ability

401
00:22:53.935 --> 00:22:57.601
to understand anything about crypto or encryption or

402
00:22:57.681 --> 00:22:59.920
communications or freedom of speech,

403
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:03.209
that this is a bit like this amateur show.

404
00:23:03.289 --> 00:23:04.574
It's probably because

405
00:23:04.654 --> 00:23:08.421
for many people, if I try to think of such

406
00:23:08.501 --> 00:23:09.972
a benevolent interpretation once again,

407
00:23:10.052 --> 00:23:13.508
that many of us certainly take this issue

408
00:23:13.588 --> 00:23:17.976
seriously—protecting children—and that's a good thing, but it's just that

409
00:23:18.056 --> 00:23:22.009
if that technological understanding isn't very

410
00:23:22.089 --> 00:23:23.289
advanced,

411
00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:27.159
then in a way you might make such somewhat

412
00:23:27.239 --> 00:23:29.144
stupid and ineffective decisions.

413
00:23:29.224 --> 00:23:33.488
And then one thing that is really important, and this was one

414
00:23:33.568 --> 00:23:38.017
thing that I'm not quite sure if it was Peter Sund who brought

415
00:23:38.097 --> 00:23:42.609
it up or when we did another episode a little bit

416
00:23:42.689 --> 00:23:43.974
related to this,

417
00:23:44.054 --> 00:23:48.317
so then these what is in Finnish false positives, so this

418
00:23:48.397 --> 00:23:52.660
possibility of false positive findings, or that it would be

419
00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:57.190
very possible that because the algorithms that identify

420
00:23:57.270 --> 00:23:59.920
this prohibited material

421
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:06.159
are inevitably imperfect, then it would lead to the fact

422
00:24:06.239 --> 00:24:12.399
that ordinary people could then

423
00:24:12.479 --> 00:24:16.758
be the subject of completely unfounded suspicion.

424
00:24:16.838 --> 00:24:21.629
A good example of this is now I'm not quite sure

425
00:24:21.709 --> 00:24:27.441
if this was in the United States, as I remember, there was a case like this,

426
00:24:27.521 --> 00:24:32.399
that there was a man who had sent a picture of his own child,

427
00:24:32.479 --> 00:24:36.074
his sick child, to a doctor.

428
00:24:36.154 --> 00:24:42.399
And now, I don't remember the details of this, it's probably been years

429
00:24:42.479 --> 00:24:46.843
since I read this, but it was a situation

430
00:24:46.923 --> 00:24:53.082
where there was something like this, apparently a skin problem or

431
00:24:53.162 --> 00:24:59.065
something like that, and then I had to consult a doctor and because of that, and

432
00:24:59.145 --> 00:25:00.345
then

433
00:25:00.395 --> 00:25:01.595
now I don't remember

434
00:25:01.645 --> 00:25:04.808
what it was, what device it was, and what it was.

435
00:25:04.888 --> 00:25:08.965
a company that then this this like a person's accounts eventually then ban,

436
00:25:09.045 --> 00:25:12.954
but in any case that message was then interpreted as such

437
00:25:13.034 --> 00:25:15.763
as forbidden forbidden material

438
00:25:15.843 --> 00:25:17.954
that would contain the use of children,

439
00:25:18.034 --> 00:25:21.886
even though it was so like addressed to a doctor and then because of that

440
00:25:21.966 --> 00:25:24.246
the man's accounts accounts disappeared. Yeah.

441
00:25:24.326 --> 00:25:28.066
So here is precisely this possibility of such like false false positive

442
00:25:28.146 --> 00:25:32.111
findings and and so if this mass surveillance were to happen

443
00:25:32.191 --> 00:25:36.044
specifically systematically and for everyone, then that would mean that

444
00:25:36.124 --> 00:25:38.684
even though the percentage probability

445
00:25:38.764 --> 00:25:42.673
that an individual message would be interpreted without reason would be relatively small,

446
00:25:42.753 --> 00:25:46.662
but then when those messages are forwarded in huge amounts,

447
00:25:46.742 --> 00:25:48.347
then that means

448
00:25:48.427 --> 00:25:51.886
that they would still come across anyway. Yeah.

449
00:25:51.966 --> 00:25:55.931
And that's related to your

450
00:25:56.011 --> 00:25:59.920
mystery of the missing YouTube episodes in the way that the punishment is usually like this, like

451
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:01.200
the platform,

452
00:26:01.250 --> 00:26:04.343
if it's like obliged to do some of these

453
00:26:04.423 --> 00:26:07.253
measures on behalf of the authorities, then that's a really rational solution.

454
00:26:07.333 --> 00:26:10.977
Now no one is paid to check anything or

455
00:26:11.057 --> 00:26:12.374
respond to complaints,

456
00:26:12.454 --> 00:26:16.040
that the account is just closed and then they don't respond to their messages.

457
00:26:16.120 --> 00:26:20.230
This unfortunately happens a lot and you also have to

458
00:26:20.310 --> 00:26:22.384
interpret your story a little bit,

459
00:26:22.464 --> 00:26:26.690
that there was no rush to respond to anything on YouTube for almost a year,

460
00:26:26.770 --> 00:26:30.997
but then when this juicy tweet and Swedish post come out and

461
00:26:31.077 --> 00:26:35.070
then suddenly some customer service person there is interested.

462
00:26:35.150 --> 00:26:36.933
So the thing is,

463
00:26:37.013 --> 00:26:41.239
we weren't aware of this, that they were like gone.

464
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:42.519
Yeah.

465
00:26:42.569 --> 00:26:45.604
So basically you can say here yes you can tip

466
00:26:45.684 --> 00:26:46.884
your hat to YouTube for

467
00:26:46.934 --> 00:26:50.492
reacting quite quickly here however it's a matter of days and not

468
00:26:50.572 --> 00:26:53.344
weeks or months. Yeah.

469
00:26:53.424 --> 00:26:55.497
But it's very possible

470
00:26:55.577 --> 00:26:59.454
that when the quarter did that thing and even asked about this

471
00:26:59.534 --> 00:27:00.734
issue,

472
00:27:00.784 --> 00:27:04.334
then it kind of sped up the

473
00:27:04.414 --> 00:27:05.614
resolution of this issue.

474
00:27:05.664 --> 00:27:10.265
But then you also don't even know what that's like here or

475
00:27:10.345 --> 00:27:15.023
that's like child abuse related

476
00:27:15.103 --> 00:27:17.092
material,

477
00:27:17.172 --> 00:27:21.989
so what would be essential or especially important was

478
00:27:22.069 --> 00:27:23.269
that

479
00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:27.437
it would focus on where the original problem is.

480
00:27:27.517 --> 00:27:32.265
there like production yeah side then if it's just like this

481
00:27:32.345 --> 00:27:37.092
like this so when patch patch you're pretending to be doing something that

482
00:27:37.172 --> 00:27:41.368
doesn't really fix that problem then then it like

483
00:27:41.448 --> 00:27:46.472
the original problem still remains unsolved yeah was it

484
00:27:46.552 --> 00:27:51.368
Julius Kivimäki's so I would answer that Thor server was

485
00:27:51.448 --> 00:27:56.058
however found with some like a spin somewhere like

486
00:27:56.138 --> 00:27:59.920
France there police work there now of course quite

487
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.163
difficult when then the best possible protection technology

488
00:28:04.243 --> 00:28:07.450
like torri is used and then like finding those bad guys in a way.

489
00:28:07.530 --> 00:28:09.123
Oh well then you could think

490
00:28:09.203 --> 00:28:12.828
that this is of course a crazy topic like child

491
00:28:12.908 --> 00:28:14.263
abuse material

492
00:28:14.343 --> 00:28:18.207
that should then just then some artificial intelligence fantasy

493
00:28:18.287 --> 00:28:19.487
be implemented for them then

494
00:28:19.542 --> 00:28:23.526
so that real people like children are not treated worse.

495
00:28:23.606 --> 00:28:27.530
So, this is actually a really ethically challenging question and I

496
00:28:27.610 --> 00:28:31.832
think there are two perspectives on it and I understand very

497
00:28:31.912 --> 00:28:33.804
well the intuitive reaction

498
00:28:33.884 --> 00:28:36.374
that many people probably have,

499
00:28:36.454 --> 00:28:40.737
that even if it was produced by an act, it should be prohibited

500
00:28:40.817 --> 00:28:44.800
because it evokes a feeling that this is so

501
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:46.653
wrong because it looks like that.

502
00:28:46.733 --> 00:28:50.119
Then of course the other side is that if there is no victim,

503
00:28:50.199 --> 00:28:53.287
if it is just pixels created by artificial intelligence,

504
00:28:53.367 --> 00:28:54.900
then is there a problem?

505
00:28:54.980 --> 00:28:57.470
And here, someone might say

506
00:28:57.550 --> 00:28:59.920
that if watching this kind of material,

507
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.260
even if it was created by an act, increases the likelihood,

508
00:29:03.340 --> 00:29:07.838
that the person would start to realize those fantasies in real life,

509
00:29:07.918 --> 00:29:10.312
then that's why it should be banned.

510
00:29:10.392 --> 00:29:14.085
Then someone else will say that or might say

511
00:29:14.165 --> 00:29:15.365
that specifically that

512
00:29:15.415 --> 00:29:19.528
if you could stay in that fantasy created by artificial intelligence,

513
00:29:19.608 --> 00:29:21.941
then that would specifically mean that

514
00:29:22.021 --> 00:29:26.332
then you wouldn't need to need that so that then children would actually

515
00:29:26.412 --> 00:29:29.673
be saved, but but this is, for example, such a thing

516
00:29:29.753 --> 00:29:31.961
that I don't have research information about

517
00:29:32.041 --> 00:29:36.229
how this kind of material created by artificial intelligence would affect

518
00:29:36.309 --> 00:29:39.631
people's behavior in real life. Yeah,

519
00:29:39.711 --> 00:29:44.085
with artificial intelligence, I guess we'll be able to track down these

520
00:29:44.165 --> 00:29:48.477
criminal gangs who create that material a little better.

521
00:29:48.557 --> 00:29:51.260
Let's hope that it can at least be removed now.

522
00:29:51.340 --> 00:29:54.106
That could be a similar question.

523
00:29:54.186 --> 00:29:58.374
This discussion is a bit confusing when it comes to drugs, with some people believing

524
00:29:58.454 --> 00:29:59.920
that by specifically preventing

525
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.587
all users and criminalizing everything,

526
00:30:02.667 --> 00:30:06.110
this is exactly the right way to do it and just increasing punishment and

527
00:30:06.190 --> 00:30:08.158
keeping it out, and others believing

528
00:30:08.238 --> 00:30:10.777
that if you somehow remove the criminal cause,

529
00:30:10.857 --> 00:30:12.682
then in a way, the use will also decrease.

530
00:30:12.762 --> 00:30:16.110
And yes, I could still imagine that in practice, if I believed

531
00:30:16.190 --> 00:30:19.158
that almost all people think that it would be better

532
00:30:19.238 --> 00:30:21.634
if people watched some material,

533
00:30:21.714 --> 00:30:23.825
then it would be better if it was something

534
00:30:23.905 --> 00:30:27.253
that was produced by artificial intelligence and not something that is, like, if

535
00:30:27.333 --> 00:30:28.539
the world was like that,

536
00:30:28.619 --> 00:30:30.825
as if artificial intelligence produced the solution,

537
00:30:30.905 --> 00:30:34.063
then that exploitation would then be gone and that would be like,

538
00:30:34.143 --> 00:30:36.634
even couples probably have such a forced opinion,

539
00:30:36.714 --> 00:30:39.349
so you know, this is really a bit of speculation,

540
00:30:39.429 --> 00:30:41.587
that should we then create a register

541
00:30:41.667 --> 00:30:43.349
where you can voluntarily declare

542
00:30:43.429 --> 00:30:46.825
that you now have such a perversion and then in a way they give

543
00:30:46.905 --> 00:30:48.968
you medication for it, this is for you, this is the equipment,

544
00:30:49.048 --> 00:30:52.253
that you use, use this fantasy like that, that yes, but somehow it feels

545
00:30:52.333 --> 00:30:55.587
like this is a harsh subject, that and specifically the most important thing

546
00:30:55.667 --> 00:30:58.872
is that you won't have those children, that it would be a terrible

547
00:30:58.952 --> 00:31:00.152
fate if that happens.

548
00:31:00.202 --> 00:31:04.353
One of them is true and this was the one that was posted,

549
00:31:04.433 --> 00:31:06.792
so it's a very interesting contradiction.

550
00:31:06.872 --> 00:31:11.521
Even though they don't have a direct connection with each other,

551
00:31:11.601 --> 00:31:15.733
they are still related to the same topic. And that's

552
00:31:15.813 --> 00:31:21.201
because in Finland, if you think about what's happening

553
00:31:21.281 --> 00:31:22.481
at the same time,

554
00:31:22.531 --> 00:31:27.112
a few years ago in Finland, schools were given this respect

555
00:31:27.192 --> 00:31:32.137
for boys in sex books and there were really three

556
00:31:32.217 --> 00:31:34.058
very special passages in it.

557
00:31:34.138 --> 00:31:37.309
But now you still have to remember that it's a book

558
00:31:37.389 --> 00:31:39.821
that's been given to middle schools,

559
00:31:39.901 --> 00:31:43.442
where students may be 12-16 years old.

560
00:31:43.522 --> 00:31:47.950
And there was a passage in it where they taught

561
00:31:48.030 --> 00:31:52.531
how to practice deepthroating with a banana.

562
00:31:52.611 --> 00:31:55.413
So, for boys, for everyone

563
00:31:55.493 --> 00:31:59.920
who reads it, regardless of gender. Yeah.

564
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:01.754
So this was a book

565
00:32:01.834 --> 00:32:05.956
that apparently wasn't used systematically in all schools,

566
00:32:06.036 --> 00:32:08.500
but there were some schools

567
00:32:08.580 --> 00:32:12.346
where Pirkka used to teach this, there were some schools

568
00:32:12.426 --> 00:32:16.547
where this was discussed in lessons and there were

569
00:32:16.627 --> 00:32:17.827
instructions

570
00:32:17.877 --> 00:32:21.399
on how to practice deepthroating with bananas and

571
00:32:21.479 --> 00:32:25.719
it was even so that even if you vomited, you

572
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:28.322
could still practice with a banana.

573
00:32:28.402 --> 00:32:30.512
And then again, you wonder

574
00:32:30.592 --> 00:32:34.713
why anyone 12 or 13 years old needs to know anything like that, why

575
00:32:34.793 --> 00:32:38.914
anyone 15 years old needs to know anything like that?

576
00:32:38.994 --> 00:32:43.115
Oh, they're all there, you can learn them as an adult if

577
00:32:43.195 --> 00:32:46.488
you feel like it. There was also a point where they taught you

578
00:32:46.568 --> 00:32:49.920
how to practice anal sex to the point

579
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.062
where you stick a carrot in your own backside. And then you wonder,

580
00:32:54.142 --> 00:32:58.204
now and so this is really so even though you can laugh at this,

581
00:32:58.284 --> 00:32:59.920
this is a really serious matter,

582
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.200
if you think about it like

583
00:33:01.250 --> 00:33:04.696
that they didn't at least make these machine foundations in the act. Yes.

584
00:33:04.776 --> 00:33:08.292
Well yes yes it's with the other one the other one goes into the same category.

585
00:33:08.372 --> 00:33:09.902
There weren't any children there,

586
00:33:09.982 --> 00:33:12.800
but it was still a bit of a special case.

587
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:16.772
But so this really you don't like that shoving all things up the backside

588
00:33:16.852 --> 00:33:18.865
as a principle is dangerous.

589
00:33:18.945 --> 00:33:22.782
So like if you think about it from a surgical perspective. The doctor there is talking.

590
00:33:22.862 --> 00:33:24.062
Well fake doctor,

591
00:33:24.112 --> 00:33:27.076
because I really don't have a degree at least not yet.

592
00:33:27.156 --> 00:33:28.954
You heard it from the pharyngeal canal here.

593
00:33:29.034 --> 00:33:31.315
Don't shove things up the backside. Yeah yeah.

594
00:33:31.395 --> 00:33:33.838
and then that's it and specifically that

595
00:33:33.918 --> 00:33:35.662
and then that's it I don't remember

596
00:33:35.742 --> 00:33:38.024
if

597
00:33:38.104 --> 00:33:41.834
there were any instructions in it,

598
00:33:41.914 --> 00:33:45.645
how to somehow heat the carrot or soften it or

599
00:33:45.725 --> 00:33:49.562
does it

600
00:33:49.642 --> 00:33:53.426
have

601
00:33:53.506 --> 00:33:56.968
to

602
00:33:57.048 --> 00:33:59.920
do

603
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.862
with

604
00:34:02.942 --> 00:34:05.681
the

605
00:34:05.761 --> 00:34:10.032
banana

606
00:34:10.112 --> 00:34:14.322
but but

607
00:34:14.402 --> 00:34:18.367
but

608
00:34:18.447 --> 00:34:22.903
anyway

609
00:34:22.983 --> 00:34:25.844
it

610
00:34:25.924 --> 00:34:29.767
was

611
00:34:29.847 --> 00:34:31.360
n't that

612
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:35.712
So, if there's one good thing to say about that book, like that passage

613
00:34:35.792 --> 00:34:39.511
, it's that it did say, like it brought up the fact

614
00:34:39.591 --> 00:34:43.250
that it's not a good idea to send these pictures to anyone

615
00:34:43.330 --> 00:34:45.272
who doesn't want to receive them. For example

616
00:34:45.352 --> 00:34:49.746
, you know, I don't think dick pics are drawn

617
00:34:49.826 --> 00:34:54.282
, so that's a good thing, but you know, at the same time, the police

618
00:34:54.362 --> 00:34:58.510
in Finland are very concerned about this kind of

619
00:34:58.590 --> 00:34:59.920
child abuse and

620
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.858
that there are adults who try to get

621
00:35:03.938 --> 00:35:07.970
children to send themselves, you know, you know, you know,

622
00:35:08.050 --> 00:35:12.024
there's a book where children are taught that this is how

623
00:35:12.104 --> 00:35:16.136
it's done, well, of course, someone might say that this is

624
00:35:16.216 --> 00:35:18.105
just the modern world and it's better

625
00:35:18.185 --> 00:35:21.928
that children are given at least some information than

626
00:35:22.008 --> 00:35:25.403
if they were completely in the dark, but you know, the situation is

627
00:35:25.483 --> 00:35:28.646
that we have a high school in Finland,

628
00:35:28.726 --> 00:35:32.642
where children are taught how to send sexy pictures

629
00:35:32.722 --> 00:35:35.596
that show their own genitals, and then we have the EU,

630
00:35:35.676 --> 00:35:39.418
which is pushing for mass surveillance to identify precisely the material

631
00:35:39.498 --> 00:35:43.240
that, in the book distributed to high schools in Finland, children

632
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:44.804
are taught to send. Yeah.

633
00:35:44.884 --> 00:35:49.090
So this is me, I'm not saying that there are systematically some pedophiles everywhere

634
00:35:49.170 --> 00:35:52.739
who, like, really want to, like, when they get there,

635
00:35:52.819 --> 00:35:56.561
because so, like, that really really malicious interpretation would be

636
00:35:56.641 --> 00:35:59.920
that this is all somehow planned, that

637
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.540
now it's now like, at the same time, children are being taught to send and then there

638
00:36:04.620 --> 00:36:09.225
's this material and then there's still building an identification mechanism and

639
00:36:09.305 --> 00:36:11.471
then we really get access to it.

640
00:36:11.551 --> 00:36:15.129
In my opinion, this is this is like that that's going too far,

641
00:36:15.209 --> 00:36:19.556
that no, yeah, fortunately, we here like that as responsible people,

642
00:36:19.636 --> 00:36:24.241
as representatives of the tube media, we can talk about these things and we're not being chased

643
00:36:24.321 --> 00:36:28.990
by this like, the fringe movement with that climactic axe and really this

644
00:36:29.070 --> 00:36:33.610
Anastiina Kallius of Helsingin Sanomat vomiting and dodging won't stop

645
00:36:33.690 --> 00:36:34.890
the rise of the fringe media,

646
00:36:34.940 --> 00:36:38.679
so this doesn't concern us, so we can this is a completely safe space

647
00:36:38.759 --> 00:36:41.182
we can talk about these things,

648
00:36:41.262 --> 00:36:45.867
but this discussion is a bit forced to take this here so

649
00:36:45.947 --> 00:36:48.626
because now we were talking earlier about the fact

650
00:36:48.706 --> 00:36:53.182
that YouTube maybe blogged two of your episodes for rational reasons or

651
00:36:53.262 --> 00:36:56.840
at least their EU visibility and this mystery has now been solved,

652
00:36:56.920 --> 00:36:59.920
so then in a way it's a bit like the same thing,

653
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.731
that we have this official media,

654
00:37:02.811 --> 00:37:07.191
which then invites this essayist to condemn these these

655
00:37:07.271 --> 00:37:11.529
sides and 23 minutes of gibberish but it's worth watching and then those

656
00:37:11.609 --> 00:37:14.156
arguments were really strange,

657
00:37:14.236 --> 00:37:16.295
that mostly what I remembered was

658
00:37:16.375 --> 00:37:20.022
that this essayist's inner circle feels physically

659
00:37:20.102 --> 00:37:24.177
sick when they have to hear such dangerous opinions

660
00:37:24.257 --> 00:37:28.331
that don't agree with their political worldview,

661
00:37:28.411 --> 00:37:31.325
that they might even vomit them,

662
00:37:31.405 --> 00:37:35.847
they might get a headache and they might get such a

663
00:37:35.927 --> 00:37:38.291
feeling of rage, that how is this allowed,

664
00:37:38.371 --> 00:37:41.712
that no, and then there was a bit of an idea,

665
00:37:41.792 --> 00:37:44.889
that well, you can have that opinion about everything,

666
00:37:44.969 --> 00:37:48.678
but there weren't really any facts in it arguments

667
00:37:48.758 --> 00:37:52.221
that 23 minutes, which is almost as productive as you,

668
00:37:52.301 --> 00:37:56.376
in one episode there was a bit of unpleasant talk about that

669
00:37:56.456 --> 00:37:59.920
guy from Hungary, who can't be found. Well, I don't know what you think,

670
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.640
did you watch this Hesarin's story behind the Paywall and what

671
00:38:04.720 --> 00:38:06.773
did you breathe, what feelings did you get?

672
00:38:06.853 --> 00:38:09.424
I'm not saying that you already have a headache from that.

673
00:38:09.504 --> 00:38:14.209
I actually have to maybe

674
00:38:14.289 --> 00:38:18.476
criticize a little bit about those people who are outraged by this article.

675
00:38:18.556 --> 00:38:23.131
I'm not saying everyone and because anyway I think it feels like

676
00:38:23.211 --> 00:38:26.881
sometimes if you throw something like this right-wing,

677
00:38:26.961 --> 00:38:30.890
right-wing conservative, all these stigmas they are really

678
00:38:30.970 --> 00:38:32.170
inaccurate,

679
00:38:32.220 --> 00:38:36.321
but but I could imagine the hypothesis that you don't say what you think yourself,

680
00:38:36.401 --> 00:38:37.873
but I could imagine

681
00:38:37.953 --> 00:38:42.140
that many of the people who thought or at least some of those people

682
00:38:42.220 --> 00:38:46.795
thought this Hesar story was just like somehow ridiculous and like

683
00:38:46.875 --> 00:38:48.217
they laughed at it,

684
00:38:48.297 --> 00:38:53.002
how can this now somehow I feel sick, like what kind of thing this is,

685
00:38:53.082 --> 00:38:57.657
some of those people probably could have written it themselves or

686
00:38:57.737 --> 00:38:59.920
I think a little bit that what

687
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.712
happened in Pridi, this sex swing in front of children, that it's like a table, that

688
00:39:04.792 --> 00:39:09.242
it's like vomiting and nausea and something like that.

689
00:39:09.322 --> 00:39:12.918
So in a way, although there is perhaps a difference here,

690
00:39:12.998 --> 00:39:15.347
that opinions are compared to

691
00:39:15.427 --> 00:39:18.301
something like that, something

692
00:39:18.381 --> 00:39:20.861
that happens in real life,

693
00:39:20.941 --> 00:39:25.719
because just like that, if we think about this material related

694
00:39:25.799 --> 00:39:27.032
to the use of children

695
00:39:27.112 --> 00:39:31.627
, then surely many people think it is so disgusting and quite

696
00:39:31.707 --> 00:39:34.712
understandably so, so in itself you could think

697
00:39:34.792 --> 00:39:39.307
that in a certain sense it feels like

698
00:39:39.387 --> 00:39:40.587
defending it.

699
00:39:40.637 --> 00:39:44.625
So I don't, I don't take a position on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.

700
00:39:44.705 --> 00:39:47.776
öö I don't think defending might be the wrong word,

701
00:39:47.856 --> 00:39:49.745
but when you bring up the fact

702
00:39:49.825 --> 00:39:52.633
that people's moral intuitions about

703
00:39:52.713 --> 00:39:54.997
what is right and what is wrong,

704
00:39:55.077 --> 00:39:59.789
so many people or someone could say that everyone has them, they

705
00:39:59.869 --> 00:40:01.069
are

706
00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:04.071
in a certain sense like internal sins and they can be associated with

707
00:40:04.151 --> 00:40:05.351
bodily feelings

708
00:40:05.401 --> 00:40:09.747
that you can't control yourself and and in a way then depending

709
00:40:09.827 --> 00:40:12.738
on where the political aspects are,

710
00:40:12.818 --> 00:40:15.363
they just go in different directions,

711
00:40:15.443 --> 00:40:19.696
that for some then a sex swing in front of children is what causes

712
00:40:19.776 --> 00:40:24.030
that like a feeling of imagery and then for others then wrong

713
00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:28.364
opinions about Hungary are what wakes them up or something or where so yeah

714
00:40:28.444 --> 00:40:32.392
myself so yeah yeah yes it's annoying now when I heard about this

715
00:40:32.472 --> 00:40:36.482
middle school book where they stuff carrots in the backside and

716
00:40:36.562 --> 00:40:40.754
then take pictures of that mouthful and that other stuff like that so

717
00:40:40.834 --> 00:40:45.149
yeah oh yeah it's a little annoying now that like how much of this kind of

718
00:40:45.229 --> 00:40:49.422
shit there is but so in general so myself when There's some left-wing

719
00:40:49.502 --> 00:40:51.558
thing, which is what most of Finland is,

720
00:40:51.638 --> 00:40:55.403
but it doesn't really bother me and I can read it,

721
00:41:03.600 --> 00:41:07.880
I guess it's some kind of physical feeling it annoys people's

722
00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:11.459
endless stupidity they just misunderstand things.

723
00:41:11.539 --> 00:41:16.145
But yeah when they write that then I wouldn't have had to read it

724
00:41:16.225 --> 00:41:19.529
and often I don't read it and life is better than not reading.

725
00:41:19.609 --> 00:41:23.043
That's probably why they think

726
00:41:23.123 --> 00:41:27.728
that I don't want to listen to even a minute of it, like 23

727
00:41:27.808 --> 00:41:31.698
minutes or Roni's rating, and that they do whatever they want,

728
00:41:31.778 --> 00:41:36.318
but is there any need to generalize it somehow, to generalize

729
00:41:36.398 --> 00:41:38.466
that you do what you want as an individual,

730
00:41:38.546 --> 00:41:43.151
but don't generalize it to something like that

731
00:41:43.231 --> 00:41:47.381
,

732
00:41:47.461 --> 00:41:52.067
Plus then like is this some kind of a sample of some of that columnist's

733
00:41:52.147 --> 00:41:53.347
friends,

734
00:41:53.397 --> 00:41:57.403
that if they have a bit of a bad feeling now, it's because they're not listening

735
00:41:57.483 --> 00:42:01.958
to that, even if it's Ivan Puopolo, well, well, so it's

736
00:42:02.038 --> 00:42:03.520
kind of true what

737
00:42:03.600 --> 00:42:04.800
you said earlier,

738
00:42:04.850 --> 00:42:08.506
that you don't feel anything like vomiting or anything like that,

739
00:42:08.586 --> 00:42:11.139
no, I haven't noticed either,

740
00:42:11.219 --> 00:42:13.940
so if that's the case, there are probably certain things,

741
00:42:14.020 --> 00:42:15.509
some individual things,

742
00:42:15.589 --> 00:42:18.534
where that can come from, somehow I'm not quite sure

743
00:42:18.614 --> 00:42:20.271
what that physical feeling is,

744
00:42:20.351 --> 00:42:24.304
but somehow nevertheless that feeling, that if you read something,

745
00:42:24.384 --> 00:42:25.584
where it comes from,

746
00:42:25.634 --> 00:42:29.066
that this is really wrong, somehow really against your own sense of justice

747
00:42:29.146 --> 00:42:32.484
or something like that, so yes, yes, yes, it depends a bit on

748
00:42:32.564 --> 00:42:36.013
how analytically you're in that moment when you're reading.

749
00:42:36.093 --> 00:42:37.293
And then I guess

750
00:42:37.343 --> 00:42:40.383
that another thing that affects me is that

751
00:42:40.463 --> 00:42:43.800
since I obviously have some degree of Alexithymia,

752
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:47.442
then that too, and if someone thinks about what this means,

753
00:42:47.522 --> 00:42:50.635
then it's like a difficulty in recognizing emotions.

754
00:42:50.715 --> 00:42:53.716
So then, that you don't necessarily even know

755
00:42:53.796 --> 00:42:57.862
what kind of bodily emotions you have or can access them

756
00:42:57.942 --> 00:43:02.007
. And it's also that, oh if and now I'm not saying

757
00:43:02.087 --> 00:43:03.520
how other people

758
00:43:03.600 --> 00:43:07.976
are doing, but it's also possible that even if people who say

759
00:43:08.056 --> 00:43:11.852
that they don't feel any kind of emotions,

760
00:43:11.932 --> 00:43:15.016
it could be that they actually do,

761
00:43:15.096 --> 00:43:19.408
but you don't recognize them and then those emotions might still affect

762
00:43:19.488 --> 00:43:23.025
what you think about your own reading,

763
00:43:23.105 --> 00:43:27.417
but yeah, there's definitely a lot of individual variation here,

764
00:43:27.497 --> 00:43:31.873
but what you said about this, or even in relation to

765
00:43:31.953 --> 00:43:33.165
the essay itself,

766
00:43:33.245 --> 00:43:37.815
yes, this is just a very good advertisement for all of them

767
00:43:37.895 --> 00:43:41.238
and this is something that has been thought about,

768
00:43:41.318 --> 00:43:44.919
that it would be really, really interesting to know

769
00:43:44.999 --> 00:43:48.536
that this writer, that you didn't think about it,

770
00:43:48.616 --> 00:43:52.928
that now it's like a direct input into these podcasts

771
00:43:53.008 --> 00:43:56.997
and actually I could say this to the entire podcast field,

772
00:43:57.077 --> 00:44:00.355
because if you think about that, that ethos,

773
00:44:00.435 --> 00:44:03.520
which maybe in many of these podcasts or The thing about

774
00:44:03.600 --> 00:44:06.958
the pods mentioned in those essays is

775
00:44:07.038 --> 00:44:11.458
that there is such a confrontation

776
00:44:11.538 --> 00:44:13.520
with the mainstream media or actually the institutional media,

777
00:44:13.600 --> 00:44:17.332
so now this essay is kind of reinforcing the image

778
00:44:17.412 --> 00:44:21.645
that that confrontation is real and then basically these

779
00:44:21.725 --> 00:44:24.270
pods get a free victim point because,

780
00:44:24.350 --> 00:44:28.458
look at how they are trying to silence us from somewhere up there

781
00:44:28.538 --> 00:44:31.958
or yeah and when those arguments were so arrogant,

782
00:44:32.038 --> 00:44:36.458
because what annoys me here is maybe the leftist

783
00:44:36.538 --> 00:44:40.895
media, if I can generalize, then in the counter-argumentation,

784
00:44:40.975 --> 00:44:45.145
they come up with some kind of scapegoat, even though it was that

785
00:44:45.225 --> 00:44:48.208
somehow Orban was desperately found,

786
00:44:48.288 --> 00:44:51.895
who was not kicked out, and then it was roughly said

787
00:44:51.975 --> 00:44:56.520
that because during Orban's time the opposition was suppressed and they were

788
00:44:56.600 --> 00:44:58.458
a bit leftist there,

789
00:44:58.538 --> 00:45:01.145
so it's a bit the same thing here,

790
00:45:01.225 --> 00:45:03.520
but then you see, in fact

791
00:45:03.600 --> 00:45:07.339
, there is a bit of shadow media in the United States,

792
00:45:07.419 --> 00:45:11.405
so in Finland they are not leftist, but rightist,

793
00:45:11.485 --> 00:45:15.471
so somehow those arguments were in my opinion really

794
00:45:15.551 --> 00:45:19.721
unclear, what was the analogy that was being tried to make, but also

795
00:45:19.801 --> 00:45:22.925
that they were just trying to say Hungary is bad,

796
00:45:23.005 --> 00:45:27.421
Orban is bad, oh, so some signs of laxity, then with this

797
00:45:27.501 --> 00:45:31.610
, with the tube scene, it just felt really lax,

798
00:45:31.690 --> 00:45:33.705
but I agree with you

799
00:45:33.785 --> 00:45:38.079
that this was a very good advertisement and I'm a little sad

800
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:42.144
that I would have actually liked to be on that list,

801
00:45:42.224 --> 00:45:46.580
but if you write again, put a negotiator there,

802
00:45:46.660 --> 00:45:48.551
that I would like this.

803
00:45:48.631 --> 00:45:51.138
So now we can't say

804
00:45:51.218 --> 00:45:55.697
that we are such and such media. Yes. Yep. Hesar Hesari at least is not.

805
00:45:55.777 --> 00:46:00.009
And so I've been thinking about whether there could be something like that there too, just

806
00:46:00.089 --> 00:46:03.520
as a hypothesis, because we have also

807
00:46:03.600 --> 00:46:07.570
had the editor-in-chief of Hesar as a guest and we have

808
00:46:07.650 --> 00:46:10.374
had a journalist from Hesar. I've had many too.

809
00:46:10.454 --> 00:46:14.610
Yes, absolutely and in the future, the journalist from Hesar will be invited.

810
00:46:14.690 --> 00:46:18.972
So that would be it, I don't think they'll ever get us there, so that's

811
00:46:19.052 --> 00:46:22.897
for sure or well I don't know, I don't know, maybe maybe less likely,

812
00:46:22.977 --> 00:46:25.763
but of course it would be a positive surprise.

813
00:46:25.843 --> 00:46:29.127
But the fact that it might seem a bit strange

814
00:46:29.207 --> 00:46:31.308
if you said that it was the media,

815
00:46:31.388 --> 00:46:34.050
but still you are a guest yourself,

816
00:46:34.130 --> 00:46:38.411
then it might become a kind of

817
00:46:38.491 --> 00:46:42.897
cognitive dissonance, but but that's it and then maybe that's it,

818
00:46:42.977 --> 00:46:47.134
that even though we don't, if I think about it like a topic of conversation,

819
00:46:47.214 --> 00:46:51.308
we haven't criticized Hesar, but it doesn't feel

820
00:46:51.388 --> 00:46:55.919
like we have at any point been clearly profiled

821
00:46:55.999 --> 00:47:00.156
against Hesar or anything, and then it's like in a

822
00:47:00.236 --> 00:47:03.520
certain sense we are more diplomatic, if

823
00:47:03.600 --> 00:47:04.826
I can say so.

824
00:47:04.906 --> 00:47:09.461
I may have taken a more critical

825
00:47:09.541 --> 00:47:12.203
line in X at times, but it's exciting to see

826
00:47:12.283 --> 00:47:15.598
that when this development goes a little further,

827
00:47:15.678 --> 00:47:20.038
because those advertising clubs are constantly moving from institutional

828
00:47:20.118 --> 00:47:24.869
media to this new, whatever

829
00:47:24.949 --> 00:47:27.285
you call these orchestras, in a way, onto them,

830
00:47:27.365 --> 00:47:32.051
and at the same time when the audience moves, like the advertising clubs move and

831
00:47:32.131 --> 00:47:36.882
the audience moves and of course they go hand in hand, which means that

832
00:47:36.962 --> 00:47:38.841
influence also moves,

833
00:47:38.921 --> 00:47:41.779
then I wouldn't be surprised at all

834
00:47:41.859 --> 00:47:45.696
that if this is in a certain sense the first taste of

835
00:47:45.776 --> 00:47:49.679
what's coming in five or ten years,

836
00:47:49.759 --> 00:47:53.988
that because Hesari and Yle are trying to maintain their own

837
00:47:54.068 --> 00:47:58.754
legitimacy and then trying to hold on to those advertising clubs,

838
00:47:58.834 --> 00:48:03.520
then it can lower the threshold and then in a certain sense attack.

839
00:48:03.600 --> 00:48:07.667
This is a really naive cancellation attempt by so many people

840
00:48:07.747 --> 00:48:08.947
,

841
00:48:08.997 --> 00:48:13.219
but Yle gets its 570 million for its

842
00:48:13.299 --> 00:48:17.500
free content and uninterrupted

843
00:48:17.580 --> 00:48:21.246
production of content without commercial interruptions. That's not to say that this argument doesn't apply to it,

844
00:48:21.326 --> 00:48:25.995
but Yle of course wants to defend its 570 million

845
00:48:26.075 --> 00:48:30.477
tax dollars and defends it very aggressively.

846
00:48:30.557 --> 00:48:34.891
Of course, it wants to hold on to every tax loophole.

847
00:48:34.971 --> 00:48:38.503
Yeah, yeah. But it's interesting that C-sami said there

848
00:48:38.583 --> 00:48:43.052
that you'll have expert guests about how it's developing.

849
00:48:43.132 --> 00:48:46.798
But do you still have that?

850
00:48:46.878 --> 00:48:49.273
Any points about the legislative level?

851
00:48:49.353 --> 00:48:52.550
Maybe the big picture is that if you think about it,

852
00:48:52.630 --> 00:48:54.824
whenever legislation is created

853
00:48:54.904 --> 00:48:59.306
that in some way restricts freedom of speech or increases

854
00:48:59.386 --> 00:49:03.520
surveillance or is a step towards a police state, I think

855
00:49:03.600 --> 00:49:06.997
it's worth being really careful and very careful,

856
00:49:07.077 --> 00:49:10.593
because right now, right now, when this episode is being filmed, it's like

857
00:49:10.673 --> 00:49:11.948
Räsänen and Tynkky,

858
00:49:12.028 --> 00:49:16.192
they didn't get into the UK, and then some people on social

859
00:49:16.272 --> 00:49:18.667
media were laughing a little bit about it,

860
00:49:18.747 --> 00:49:22.263
that now Tynkkynen is getting a taste of his own medicine,

861
00:49:22.343 --> 00:49:26.329
because Tynkkynen himself has called for an entry ban on

862
00:49:26.409 --> 00:49:28.451
various or certain people.

863
00:49:28.531 --> 00:49:32.577
And now that Tykkinen is rich himself, now he's getting his own medicine.

864
00:49:32.657 --> 00:49:36.938
I don't know if that's it, I understand the point,

865
00:49:37.018 --> 00:49:39.885
but then you can't, it's a different matter,

866
00:49:39.965 --> 00:49:43.363
whether you consider the things that some people have been convicted of

867
00:49:43.443 --> 00:49:47.606
to be of equal value or whether you generally

868
00:49:47.686 --> 00:49:48.886
think

869
00:49:48.936 --> 00:49:52.145
that Tynkkönen basically deserved these sentences.

870
00:49:52.225 --> 00:49:54.384
The interesting situation with Räsen is

871
00:49:54.464 --> 00:49:58.569
that Räsänen himself was, as I understand it, promoting

872
00:49:58.649 --> 00:50:02.105
the legislation that led to Räsäne's latest sentence. For example

873
00:50:02.185 --> 00:50:03.520
, regarding the acquittal

874
00:50:03.600 --> 00:50:06.324
, what does this quoting of the Bible have to do with

875
00:50:06.404 --> 00:50:10.810
it, in my opinion, all politicians should

876
00:50:10.890 --> 00:50:12.554
think very carefully about

877
00:50:12.634 --> 00:50:16.978
whether they should start doing some kind of mass surveillance,

878
00:50:17.058 --> 00:50:18.909
which is specifically related to the fact

879
00:50:18.989 --> 00:50:23.271
that you don't post inappropriate

880
00:50:23.351 --> 00:50:25.451
content related to child abuse there,

881
00:50:25.531 --> 00:50:30.062
what if as a result you yourself end up being wrongly flagged

882
00:50:30.142 --> 00:50:32.118
and that causes problems for yourself.

883
00:50:32.198 --> 00:50:36.666
How many politicians take into account that, then any other

884
00:50:36.746 --> 00:50:38.972
thing, what can follow from it,

885
00:50:39.052 --> 00:50:43.458
which at the moment does not necessarily even come to mind, or does not

886
00:50:43.538 --> 00:50:46.884
even come to mind, and then if you think about Finland,

887
00:50:46.964 --> 00:50:51.184
it seems to me that we Finns have a somewhat naive or

888
00:50:51.264 --> 00:50:55.296
blue-eyed attitude towards those in power and

889
00:50:55.376 --> 00:50:56.916
especially towards the authorities,

890
00:50:56.996 --> 00:51:00.218
that we think that the authorities somehow act correctly,

891
00:51:00.298 --> 00:51:03.520
that although in connection with this Guard Helsinki there is now

892
00:51:03.600 --> 00:51:08.645
a discussion or has been a discussion about this structural corruption

893
00:51:08.725 --> 00:51:12.986
or good brotherhood networks, but then perhaps we somehow think

894
00:51:13.066 --> 00:51:17.399
that those authorities nevertheless act correctly in principle,

895
00:51:17.479 --> 00:51:20.815
but we nevertheless have a drug police boss

896
00:51:20.895 --> 00:51:24.801
who was sentenced to prison. So, if there are tools

897
00:51:24.881 --> 00:51:29.926
that can be used to somehow monitor ordinary citizens and

898
00:51:30.006 --> 00:51:34.766
mark them or something like that, can we trust

899
00:51:34.846 --> 00:51:39.392
that the people who control and use those tools

900
00:51:39.472 --> 00:51:44.659
will always work correctly and not in the same way as

901
00:51:44.739 --> 00:51:49.783
the boss of the drug police and so on, another thing that I

902
00:51:49.863 --> 00:51:51.705
think is worth thinking about.

903
00:51:51.785 --> 00:51:56.758
This is actually also related to this entry ban,

904
00:51:56.838 --> 00:51:59.748
that if someone is satisfied that,

905
00:51:59.828 --> 00:52:03.520
well, Tynkkyne and Rasanen

906
00:52:03.600 --> 00:52:04.800
were not allowed into the country,

907
00:52:04.850 --> 00:52:08.086
then what if the next government in Britain is

908
00:52:08.166 --> 00:52:11.803
clearly right-wing or right-wing conservative and

909
00:52:11.883 --> 00:52:15.361
then they have the legislative framework in place

910
00:52:15.441 --> 00:52:18.812
that can prevent people from coming into the country and they are

911
00:52:18.892 --> 00:52:22.423
only targeting people like each other or

912
00:52:22.503 --> 00:52:24.440
people who have different opinions,

913
00:52:24.520 --> 00:52:27.414
that in my opinion it is always worth thinking about that

914
00:52:27.494 --> 00:52:29.591
if there were people in power

915
00:52:29.671 --> 00:52:33.520
who you don't like and whose political opinions are completely

916
00:52:33.600 --> 00:52:36.493
opposite to what you have, what would happen

917
00:52:36.573 --> 00:52:39.042
if those people had the tools

918
00:52:39.122 --> 00:52:42.387
that you are creating and what would the world look like then?

919
00:52:42.467 --> 00:52:46.104
That is something in my opinion that is always worth thinking about and

920
00:52:46.184 --> 00:52:48.706
so really really carefully. Yeah, I agree.

921
00:52:48.786 --> 00:52:50.086
And then he also added

922
00:52:50.166 --> 00:52:53.538
that these channels should have some legal protection,

923
00:52:53.618 --> 00:52:57.201
so that if you can be blocked or canceled or

924
00:52:57.281 --> 00:52:59.485
marked as suspicious in some system,

925
00:52:59.565 --> 00:53:03.308
then there should be some right to audit it and then the right

926
00:53:03.388 --> 00:53:04.588
to

927
00:53:04.638 --> 00:53:06.190
establish some kind of connection to

928
00:53:06.270 --> 00:53:08.043
whether a miscarriage of justice is happening here.

929
00:53:08.123 --> 00:53:11.858
Like a little bit, like partly happening here in connection with your YouTube

930
00:53:11.938 --> 00:53:13.138
case.

931
00:53:13.188 --> 00:53:16.599
That's where I don't think I'd say maybe I'm not really saying it.

932
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:20.577
Well yeah, but you got it now anyway like I have it too so I have

933
00:53:20.657 --> 00:53:23.629
for example had my own customer service on YouTube,

934
00:53:23.709 --> 00:53:27.389
so I could handle a similar situation with just

935
00:53:27.469 --> 00:53:29.896
that mass this like visibility brings power,

936
00:53:29.976 --> 00:53:33.602
which is really good yeah if but you just raise it or that Petri

937
00:53:33.682 --> 00:53:34.882
Kajander,

938
00:53:34.932 --> 00:53:38.125
who was a guest here so then he had meta just deleted his

939
00:53:38.205 --> 00:53:41.994
account so that other than that gives no chance to cancel it,

940
00:53:42.074 --> 00:53:45.318
that if you then do this with all the love but Petrel,

941
00:53:45.398 --> 00:53:49.242
that if you are so small, then you have no chance.

942
00:53:49.322 --> 00:53:53.057
To reverse such decisions is precisely yes, so that

943
00:53:53.137 --> 00:53:56.545
in a certain sense this risk of miscarriage of justice is a very, very

944
00:53:56.625 --> 00:54:00.523
important thing then if if you are like a small actor and if you don't have

945
00:54:00.603 --> 00:54:03.520
visibility if you don't have influence then and that is

946
00:54:03.600 --> 00:54:07.582
in my opinion you can say that it is like a genuine genuine concern and just that

947
00:54:07.662 --> 00:54:11.818
if then this one example so if I remember from the US where

948
00:54:11.898 --> 00:54:15.532
this father had sent a picture of his sick child to

949
00:54:15.612 --> 00:54:19.768
the doctor and then because of that the accounts went away so that is an example

950
00:54:19.848 --> 00:54:21.741
of what can what can happen.

951
00:54:21.821 --> 00:54:25.512
And then if you think about it even though it was a relatively recent

952
00:54:25.592 --> 00:54:28.065
example as I remember it was some comic artist

953
00:54:28.145 --> 00:54:32.359
who had drawn some anime or something like that now I don't remember which

954
00:54:32.439 --> 00:54:35.609
country. So then then then those comics,

955
00:54:35.689 --> 00:54:38.800
which apparently weren't that problematic,

956
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:43.094
but somehow they were they were then they were so some algorithm had

957
00:54:43.174 --> 00:54:44.374
looked at

958
00:54:44.424 --> 00:54:47.446
that they were then anyway and then because of that everything went away.

959
00:54:47.526 --> 00:54:51.102
So basically I could say to everyone that

960
00:54:51.182 --> 00:54:55.222
you shouldn't store any really important information solely

961
00:54:55.302 --> 00:54:56.502
in the cloud,

962
00:54:56.552 --> 00:54:59.980
but that you should always have physical

963
00:55:00.060 --> 00:55:03.520
copies of everything, because and even if, even if, maybe

964
00:55:03.600 --> 00:55:08.037
the probability of an individual person

965
00:55:08.117 --> 00:55:12.431
getting into this situation

966
00:55:12.511 --> 00:55:15.117
is relatively small.

967
00:55:15.197 --> 00:55:19.024
But if you want to play it safe, then it's a good idea to think

968
00:55:19.104 --> 00:55:21.404
about what your backup plan would be

969
00:55:21.484 --> 00:55:24.883
if that happens, and for example, the services you use,

970
00:55:24.963 --> 00:55:28.729
whether they have or can you add

971
00:55:28.809 --> 00:55:30.804
a second email address or something else,

972
00:55:30.884 --> 00:55:34.588
so that you don't have a single point of failure.

973
00:55:34.668 --> 00:55:39.105
So things don't just rely on one single point or

974
00:55:39.185 --> 00:55:43.317
one single thing and then if that single thing

975
00:55:43.397 --> 00:55:45.270
breaks, then it's Mm.

976
00:55:45.350 --> 00:55:49.176
Yeah, I actually suggest we go to the insider side.

977
00:55:49.256 --> 00:55:52.594
Let's talk a little about these and then about related matters.

978
00:55:52.674 --> 00:55:56.928
So, we have actually

979
00:55:57.008 --> 00:56:01.262
Rami Kurimo and I have both flirted a bit with Linux and Mac, and I guess neither of us have ever been

980
00:56:01.342 --> 00:56:03.520
PC fans, but that's about

981
00:56:03.600 --> 00:56:07.361
it, when you've watched or listened to this,

982
00:56:07.441 --> 00:56:11.813
please like and subscribe to Rami's Puheenaihe channel, and

983
00:56:11.893 --> 00:56:14.374
all the comments help these algorithms,

984
00:56:14.454 --> 00:56:18.886
so that they can gain some power over this or that YouTube

985
00:56:18.966 --> 00:56:23.337
and Spotify channel, so that we seem relevant to them,

986
00:56:23.417 --> 00:56:26.508
so that this increases our power in this system.

987
00:56:26.588 --> 00:56:31.020
But I suggest we go to the insider side and talk about it, you

988
00:56:31.100 --> 00:56:35.349
bought a Macki Ultra and you demoed it in your studio and it played well

989
00:56:35.429 --> 00:56:37.605
. I've been a little bit annoyed,

990
00:56:37.685 --> 00:56:40.349
I have this one running in MCM,

991
00:56:40.429 --> 00:56:43.337
so I'm waiting for this when the moon rises for the M5 Ultra,

992
00:56:43.417 --> 00:56:44.983
so this is a bit related.

993
00:56:45.063 --> 00:56:49.435
At the same time, we looked at it a bit, compared it, said I have a couple of provinces, and

994
00:56:49.515 --> 00:56:52.057
how can we still get it up to security standards,

995
00:56:52.137 --> 00:56:56.142
so let's talk briefly about these two things in the inside circle.

996
00:56:56.222 --> 00:57:00.593
So is Mäkki pretty safe after all and how