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Well, welcome Rami Kurimo, co-founder of Puheenaihe media.

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Moro. Moro. And today we're talking about a mysterious situation

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that must have been resolved while filming this.

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So you have these episodes, how many hundreds are there now?

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So 681 or two I think are out. Yeah, tough.

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I'm going to break 400 so these long episodes and short ones

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of course, but two of those episodes,

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long episodes, were censored according to one interpretation and you

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even got into the Finnish media with that and then into this Swedish media

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with the question of whether it was censorship.

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And that theory was actually pretty good,

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because this first episode was episode 570, it dealt with CSAM and cybersecurity

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and the EU's right to monitor or oblige

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platforms to remove various things, so What are the odds of that!

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that this particular episode will be removed.

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Yes, that arrangement was undeniably very special and precisely

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because YouTube didn't offer any explanation for it at the beginning,

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that just such an episode,

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where this popular chat control

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is critically examined, you could say legislation,

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so just why it was then blocked in the EU area. Yeah.

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Maybe then you'll give a description of what's really happening,

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so another theme that's being discussed is this Hesarin Annastiina Kallius

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wrote this essay,

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in which the far-right media was condemned in harsh words and in honor of that we have Ivan

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Puopoloja, 23 minutes and Roni Arvonen,

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who was a guest here then of course Otto Juotte, these two, aka

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Tuomas Enbusken,

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this whole Finland rising and then with Jari Kuikanmäki, This fifth

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power, where corona theories were talked about by the way.

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Jari has written a book. But we didn't get there then.

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Are we now saying that we're not far-right media?

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We are clearly not the media

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if Hesar's article doesn't mention us and Hesar's truth is the whole

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truth. Yeah, this is a bit related.

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So, we now have a giant publishing platform, YouTube,

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which then coincidentally just when the CSAM topic is being discussed and important

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legislative projects are underway,

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removes two episodes and then on the other hand, this so-called

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mainstream media here, when filming this, asks a columnist

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to condemn it,

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that like our media, but like this, the media of cups,

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it even causes people to vomit,

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have headaches and nausea.

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That's sometimes the case,

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but tell me now what really happens to those two episodes that disappeared

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.

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Yeah, you could actually start with this timeline,

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so it might be easier to keep up.

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So, when the EU voted on this chat room recently,

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Leevi was in episode number 570 with the title EU and Cesam big brother

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is watching you.

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It was a joke and then for some reason the episode wasn't

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viewable normally and someone had come to comment on Leivi's

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X post. That was why it was an interesting arrangement,

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because for Leivi and me, the episode was still

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viewable on YouTube normally even though we were

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logged in with the usernames of the topic in question

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. And then when I started to investigate, I discovered

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that this particular episode is still there, but the thing is that

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it is blocked in EU countries,

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although it was not for every user,

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and then later I found out

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that some users in EU countries could watch it,

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but then when I used a couple of different tools like this one on the internet

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,

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which allow you to see whether the episodes are normally

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visible or not,

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then based on both of them, it seemed

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that

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this particular episode was blocked in EU countries and then in Finland too, if

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you used a browser or a VPN,

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you could watch this episode or actually both episodes

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normally. Etc.

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And what made this a special special arrangement was that

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these episodes were still available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

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normally visible and and just that

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when in this episode number 570 the topic is EU mass surveillance and

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then this chat control is critically reviewed and the chat control

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is being voted on or has been voted on and still someone could say

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that in a slightly questionable way,

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because in that one vote the majority of

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the people who voted

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voted against the chat, but despite that it went through.

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Well it's like a voting technical thing and maybe you could go

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through that later,

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but in any case you voted on it like the way this chat now

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or its chat control 1.

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0 continuation was put through, then someone could say

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that it itself was questionable,

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so that arrangement arrangement is just time now I could say delicious. Yeah.

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And before you continue this timeline,

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this came to me, so you're also in the

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insider circle there,

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so you were probably there, this had probably been left out,

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so you had gotten this story through both Iltasanomat and this Swedish media

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quarter,

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then by chance just when this got a little bit of international

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media visibility,

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then this thing started to become clear like this

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after a long wait. Yes, it's quite possible that now it would be

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that Iltasanomat reacted to it and then this Swedish quarter,

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because that Mikko Ohtama had posted about this in English on X and that

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Mikko's post had received over 800,000 views. It

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's clearly of international interest.

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Now, of course, it's a really opportune time and so I have to say thanks to Mik Mikko

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for this.

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oh but it is very possible or so first of all that it is it is very

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likely

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that the quarter reacted to this matter precisely because of the Mikon post and

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then it is quite possible

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that this matter progressed a little faster on YouTube

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too because the quarter was also asked then from YouTube,

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what is this you are asking or from Google, what is this?

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Well but now we have some kind of hypothesis,

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what really happened.

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So the quite logical interpretation was that could it be a coincidence

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that at the very moment when important votes are being made about the sea,

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information that is critical of it is just blocked from EU

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citizens, so yes it now sounds a bit like

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what are the odds of that.

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But apparently a benevolent interpretation can be found, that

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there is a proper explanation for this, that is, from YouTube's own

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procedures.

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Yes, in my opinion, there is or so in this matter I think there is no

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reason to doubt that the explanation that YouTube offered then

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is not completely watertight. And the reason was

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that in both of these episodes there were advertisements for our election podcast episode

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. So they were for two different episodes,

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but anyway, they had

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advertisements for the Vaipod episode and then because of that, probably it was me, so

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I had set the settings so that the episode contains political advertising,

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even though the political definition of political advertising

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on YouTube itself is a bit unclear and vague and there

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seems to be a bit of a grey area,

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as to what is political advertising and

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what is not when it is commercial,

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but anyway, I had put it on just to be sure.

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Well, when I had put it on,

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it didn't affect the issue and the episodes could be viewed normally.

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But then last year, in the fall of 2025,

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I don't actually mean a month,

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but it was then that the situation had changed to the point

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that, as I recall, YouTube said

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that because legislation has come into force or is coming into force in the EU

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, then all episodes

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that contain political advertising or where the creator

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himself has said

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that they contain political advertising or clicked on that regulation,

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then they will be blocked in the EU.

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M and this in my opinion, well, first of all, this in itself was completely

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understandable and logical, but then what you can say

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that you could make sure of was

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that when you cut out these ads,

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YouTube has this internal tool

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that you can use to cut out certain things from that episode.

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Then when you took those ads out and then chose in the settings

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that they no longer contain political advertising,

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then immediately after that they were viewable with a direct link

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and then a few hours later,

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they were searchable again. Mhm.

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So in itself, YouTube's explanation in my opinion was completely

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logical.

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What makes this happen, from our perspective, or

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where is it, maybe the problem, or why did those

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questions arise, was precisely

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because, first of all, YouTube didn't know

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what it was about at first. you have to wait a few days and then the fact

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that because there, like from YouTube studio, there was nothing

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like that, like it didn't clearly show that these episodes are now

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blogged and then the setting where if you think about it, like the

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setting that these episodes contain political mentions and advertising,

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there wasn't any such announcement in there either,

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that now because of that they are not visible in the EU area.

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but you had to dig a little further into it. Yeah,

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it was quite common for that softblock to do that episode

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earlier. So this studio was also acquired by Ivan Puopalo,

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so I was often on this weekly wisdom program,

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which was mentioned in this Hesar essay

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as a representative of this kind of media,

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so there were undoubtedly quite a lot of such colorful words there,

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which were suitable for the language of a civilized bourgeois,

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so then YouTube made these soft bands,

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so it removed that advertising revenue from Ivan and then since Ivan is

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a capitalist,

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it probably looked for them and pinged them and published them again.

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And here there is a somewhat similar perverse phenomenon,

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that yes, you notice that there is no illusion, that's it,

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but it is still really annoying and really effective like

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this soft band. But then it's maybe even more twisted,

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in that in a way you don't really know where

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this is available geographically,

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but somewhere it's still rolling.

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And then you might get a feeling that no one is interested and

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so off topic, that maybe that's a bit well-intentioned.

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Let's take Google's explanation here at face value,

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then it's probably not worth

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clicking on political advertising like that anymore,

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that it's probably a bit like when you tell the bank

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that you have political connections and do you have an account in America,

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so that leads to quite a lot of bureaucracy

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when you click on them. Yeah.

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And so it's true that when I read the YouTube description,

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what counts as political advertising,

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it wouldn't necessarily have been fulfilled in them,

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because in those places we weren't advertising the candidate ourselves,

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but we were advertising an episode where this candidate was a guest.

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of course that episode was a paid advertisement so

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it was paid commercial cooperation but that's not when we then offer that

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opportunity to all candidates equally. Yeah.

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But it's just that because like Leivi, who makes these episodes,

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no Leevi is not telling anyone

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that you shouldn't vote for this or that in that episode.

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That's just like offering an opportunity for discussion. Yeah.

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We can actually go down that rabbit hole too.

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So yeah this is like this now maybe a little warmer than this traditional

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media and this Hesar essay, that you like this commercial cooperation,

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that there's like it's quite good, that they say when someone gives you money,

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then it says there that even if it's YouTube's own tag

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commercial cooperation, now it has expanded so much

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that it should always have a banner that is burned,

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that this commercial cooperation is something else, just like in that video, it would be

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like that hobby in the media industry and it is a bit unclear

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what kind of whipping you will get

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if you don't then submit to this.

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On the other hand, if you have a traditional media

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broadcast like YouTube, there is really

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nothing like a hint

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that left-wing causes are being promoted here or something like that,

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but it is an interesting case that the Swedes are quite good,

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that this quarter and this is yours, is it the guy

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who made this post, from which it got there,

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so are these influential parties in this freedom of speech

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battle scene? Well Mikko Ohtama can say

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that it is very strong, so you could say that it is

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more active in the crypto scene,

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but that it is, it has then taken a very strong stance on this,

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both on crypto legislation and also on

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legislation in general regarding privacy and then this is also related to

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things like digital euros, digital IDs, and that type of thing.

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Quarterly, I must say that it was a media

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that I had never heard of before. For example, that yes,

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but in that article it probably had an international focus

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and it was very critical.

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Of course, it picked up this first theory,

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that is, that episode 570 dealt directly with CSAM and the EU's other

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EU attempts to get to the level of private communication,

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so those points were raised from there and I just remembered that they had

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raised

250
00:14:15,092 --> 00:14:18,166
that here it was discussed not so critically as such,

251
00:14:18,246 --> 00:14:19,767
but so factually,

252
00:14:19,847 --> 00:14:23,771
that in Finland, for example, there are these fact-checker-type

253
00:14:23,851 --> 00:14:27,432
organisations that get to join this alliance and could it be

254
00:14:27,512 --> 00:14:31,607
that these, in a way, who monitors the monitors, so they didn't go into

255
00:14:31,687 --> 00:14:33,438
a bit of a rabbit hole,

256
00:14:33,518 --> 00:14:37,384
that there could be these parties here, these parties could be

257
00:14:37,464 --> 00:14:38,664
behind this censorship,

258
00:14:38,714 --> 00:14:41,674
but these

259
00:14:41,754 --> 00:14:44,362
, So the arrangement itself,

260
00:14:44,442 --> 00:14:47,337
that there are these so-called trusted flaggers,

261
00:14:47,417 --> 00:14:51,455
which in Finland are three, two associations and one company, can

262
00:14:51,535 --> 00:14:55,173
rightly ask, is this now, is this now right,

263
00:14:55,253 --> 00:14:57,575
that there is some entity that monitors the internet,

264
00:14:57,655 --> 00:14:59,920
which is not an authority, though. There are

265
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,351
two, so they are associations and then a company, and then they have more

266
00:15:04,431 --> 00:15:08,905
rights than others or they have been given some specific rights,

267
00:15:08,985 --> 00:15:13,335
so you can think about whether this is a meaningful system and

268
00:15:13,415 --> 00:15:17,582
then what if those associations and companies have

269
00:15:17,662 --> 00:15:18,862
some interests of their own,

270
00:15:18,912 --> 00:15:22,382
can they then abuse their own position?

271
00:15:22,462 --> 00:15:26,874
For example, pressing the button that this section talking about them should be removed.

272
00:15:26,954 --> 00:15:30,443
so even though nothing like that has happened here,

273
00:15:30,523 --> 00:15:33,951
but still the situation that it could not be like that,

274
00:15:34,031 --> 00:15:37,643
in my opinion it is no or that if there is such power,

275
00:15:37,723 --> 00:15:39,551
can it be misused,

276
00:15:39,631 --> 00:15:43,612
in my opinion it is that it is that which is always good to think about.

277
00:15:43,692 --> 00:15:47,920
In my opinion it is more broadly related to this or if I think about

278
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,735
my own personal opinion regarding this mass surveillance,

279
00:15:51,815 --> 00:15:54,874
so yes it would really be worth thinking about that

280
00:15:54,954 --> 00:15:59,182
in what all ways mass surveillance is being implemented and

281
00:15:59,262 --> 00:16:00,462
therefore everything

282
00:16:00,512 --> 00:16:03,595
that certain people are trying to get through.

283
00:16:03,675 --> 00:16:06,383
And how how it could be misused.

284
00:16:06,463 --> 00:16:08,537
that in a certain way I understand

285
00:16:08,617 --> 00:16:12,338
that many politicians also genuinely have this opinion,

286
00:16:12,418 --> 00:16:14,492
that or may genuinely think that

287
00:16:14,572 --> 00:16:18,674
now we are on the side of children and then we do

288
00:16:18,754 --> 00:16:19,954
things like that,

289
00:16:20,004 --> 00:16:23,362
that we would not get this material related to the use of such and such a child for the benefit of children

290
00:16:23,442 --> 00:16:27,988
off the internet and in my opinion that is basically a good

291
00:16:28,068 --> 00:16:30,459
goal. At the same time it is important to think about,

292
00:16:30,539 --> 00:16:33,943
It's not what it is, it's not how it's being done,

293
00:16:34,023 --> 00:16:37,428
it's not really effective and what's the cost,

294
00:16:37,508 --> 00:16:41,736
because for example, what we've discussed in Finland

295
00:16:41,816 --> 00:16:46,425
with people who have expertise in this, they say

296
00:16:46,505 --> 00:16:50,796
that that material is still on the internet. Etc.

297
00:16:50,876 --> 00:16:55,168
Then if we just interfere with normal

298
00:16:55,248 --> 00:16:59,540
communication between people with these like WhatsApp or

299
00:16:59,620 --> 00:17:00,820
these

300
00:17:00,870 --> 00:17:02,939
like commonly used media,

301
00:17:03,019 --> 00:17:05,517
it won't have a practical effect,

302
00:17:05,597 --> 00:17:09,983
because the material produced by criminals will spread elsewhere.

303
00:17:10,063 --> 00:17:12,121
And then the other thing is that

304
00:17:12,201 --> 00:17:16,650
even though there are certainly many or quite a few who probably

305
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:19,668
think that it wouldn't be a good thing

306
00:17:19,748 --> 00:17:22,750
to prevent the spread of this kind of material,

307
00:17:22,830 --> 00:17:27,027
the biggest problem is precisely its production and the fact that it's not

308
00:17:27,107 --> 00:17:30,486
created in the first place and that's where we should intervene.

309
00:17:30,566 --> 00:17:33,316
So here it's a bit like a situation

310
00:17:33,396 --> 00:17:37,782
where now politicians are getting or politicians are trying to

311
00:17:37,862 --> 00:17:40,612
use this to communicate to citizens and voters

312
00:17:40,692 --> 00:17:44,260
that we're doing this here, we're taking this seriously.

313
00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:46,712
But then if the truth is that

314
00:17:46,792 --> 00:17:50,738
this reality is not fixing the problem and at

315
00:17:50,818 --> 00:17:54,008
the same time people's privacy is being weakened,

316
00:17:54,088 --> 00:17:56,964
then it's just a patch

317
00:17:57,044 --> 00:17:59,920
that's in the wrong place from the start.

318
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,409
Do you remember that Great Britain was one of those blogged countries,

319
00:18:04,489 --> 00:18:08,202
that this is a bit related, because this can be discussed,

320
00:18:08,282 --> 00:18:12,312
that this is now an EU problem only? As far as I remember, it wasn't.

321
00:18:12,392 --> 00:18:16,738
But Great Britain hasn't been particularly well-established in this

322
00:18:16,818 --> 00:18:18,951
kind of freedom of speech rights.

323
00:18:19,031 --> 00:18:23,439
For example, when describing this, Päivi Räsänen is not allowed

324
00:18:23,519 --> 00:18:24,719
to travel to England,

325
00:18:24,784 --> 00:18:28,308
that she's against it, and Tynkyke probably had the same thing.

326
00:18:28,388 --> 00:18:31,153
Yeah, it was undesirable for it to come.

327
00:18:31,233 --> 00:18:35,831
But but but yeah, this is actually a very central central

328
00:18:35,911 --> 00:18:40,384
thing, that leaving the EU in itself does not automatically mean

329
00:18:40,464 --> 00:18:43,355
that freedom of speech and privacy would not be better.

330
00:18:43,435 --> 00:18:46,453
Although my personal opinion is

331
00:18:46,533 --> 00:18:50,436
that if the EU is moving more and more towards this police state,

332
00:18:50,516 --> 00:18:54,925
then Finns should really think about whether we want to be

333
00:18:55,005 --> 00:18:56,205
part of it.

334
00:18:56,255 --> 00:18:59,920
Do we want Brussels to be monitoring Finns?

335
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,331
But leaving the EU

336
00:19:02,411 --> 00:19:05,880
does not automatically guarantee good things.

337
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,362
And Britain is a very good example of

338
00:19:09,442 --> 00:19:14,116
that, because in Britain, I mean,

339
00:19:14,196 --> 00:19:18,737
when people are put there, there is a non-hate crime

340
00:19:18,817 --> 00:19:23,491
law that kind of prosecutes people for tweets

341
00:19:23,571 --> 00:19:27,844
because they are a little bit like inciting

342
00:19:27,924 --> 00:19:31,594
a group of people. In Finland, there is a special

343
00:19:31,674 --> 00:19:36,549
interpretation of freedom of speech that can then prevent certain unwanted

344
00:19:36,629 --> 00:19:40,032
expressions of opinion in public with criminal law,

345
00:19:40,112 --> 00:19:44,384
which is, and so that article is a bit of a joke.

346
00:19:44,464 --> 00:19:48,938
But actually, in terms of this and end-to-end encrypted

347
00:19:49,018 --> 00:19:53,625
messages, in general, my understanding when describing this is

348
00:19:53,705 --> 00:19:56,907
that in end-to-end encrypted communication channels,

349
00:19:56,987 --> 00:19:59,920
even now Signal and WhatsApp, there is no

350
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,200
problem.

351
00:20:01,250 --> 00:20:04,722
So it is very difficult to get these under EU control anymore,

352
00:20:04,802 --> 00:20:08,552
because the member states voted against it,

353
00:20:08,632 --> 00:20:12,686
which tried to get these into the previously valid

354
00:20:12,766 --> 00:20:13,966
directive.

355
00:20:14,016 --> 00:20:17,853
So child protection is like generally accepted directives.

356
00:20:17,933 --> 00:20:22,291
Based on them then these things are not allowed to be heard on encrypted channels

357
00:20:22,371 --> 00:20:26,546
all communication has been monitored and this this this then they tried

358
00:20:26,626 --> 00:20:30,862
to get this to continue but that too as described it is a bit

359
00:20:30,942 --> 00:20:35,300
unclear whether even that will continue but like this as a general rule

360
00:20:35,380 --> 00:20:39,434
all sensible people use those tools that have been driven into their heads anyway

361
00:20:39,514 --> 00:20:43,811
and then it has to be a bit really quite a silly discussion that you

362
00:20:43,891 --> 00:20:47,944
you put nothing on encrypted channels but then hardened

363
00:20:48,024 --> 00:20:50,315
criminals and even those

364
00:20:50,395 --> 00:20:53,476
who are still perverts and children in terms of exploitation,

365
00:20:53,556 --> 00:20:55,725
then they will surely understand

366
00:20:55,805 --> 00:20:59,920
that they are not on these crappy channels and that material.

367
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:04,391
So now we are trying to solve this problem

368
00:21:04,471 --> 00:21:08,926
by taking ordinary people into this censorship

369
00:21:09,006 --> 00:21:10,206
,

370
00:21:10,256 --> 00:21:13,721
which then these criminals will not use that channel.

371
00:21:13,801 --> 00:21:15,536
This is my little theory.

372
00:21:15,616 --> 00:21:19,229
It has been a bit of a useless fight all this time. Among other things

373
00:21:19,309 --> 00:21:22,663
, what is good to remember here is that simply

374
00:21:22,743 --> 00:21:27,458
securing the end-to-end encryption, which is absolutely important, means

375
00:21:27,538 --> 00:21:31,605
that if it were required or if the EU were to push through something like this,

376
00:21:31,685 --> 00:21:35,428
that a backdoor must be installed in the end-to-end encryption,

377
00:21:35,508 --> 00:21:37,695
then that would mean that

378
00:21:37,775 --> 00:21:42,490
all criminals, including all intelligence services of foreign countries,

379
00:21:42,570 --> 00:21:44,823
would also be able to use that backdoor,

380
00:21:44,903 --> 00:21:49,618
so that it would not be like this, like if it were done correctly, it would

381
00:21:49,698 --> 00:21:52,987
then provide a service to all malicious people

382
00:21:53,067 --> 00:21:57,328
who also want to access that whole exchange of messages,

383
00:21:57,408 --> 00:21:59,920
but that end-to-end encryption, as I

384
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,061
understand it, is not enough in itself,

385
00:22:02,141 --> 00:22:05,212
that it would be theoretically possible and it may be

386
00:22:05,292 --> 00:22:08,840
that there are certain parties in the EU that are trying to push for this,

387
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,943
so that the surveillance would then be put on a slightly

388
00:22:13,023 --> 00:22:14,223
higher level.

389
00:22:14,273 --> 00:22:17,997
In other words, so that the phone would not, in a certain sense, monitor everything

390
00:22:18,077 --> 00:22:20,316
that happens inside the phone.

391
00:22:20,396 --> 00:22:24,657
So then the thing is that the communication itself is to get the evil encrypted,

392
00:22:24,737 --> 00:22:27,095
so that doesn't help and isn't enough,

393
00:22:27,175 --> 00:22:30,188
because if what the phone does can be monitored,

394
00:22:30,268 --> 00:22:33,161
then then in a way it would let Yeah,

395
00:22:33,241 --> 00:22:36,312
but that wouldn't lead to the problem you mentioned,

396
00:22:36,392 --> 00:22:40,416
that in the same way the phone or device like that plugin

397
00:22:40,496 --> 00:22:43,924
would then be accessible to evil parties again, so

398
00:22:44,004 --> 00:22:48,205
that it wouldn't help anything or it probably just sounds like

399
00:22:48,285 --> 00:22:49,514
a really stupid idea.

400
00:22:49,594 --> 00:22:53,855
Otherwise, I don't really trust those people's ability

401
00:22:53,935 --> 00:22:57,601
to understand anything about crypto or encryption or

402
00:22:57,681 --> 00:22:59,920
communications or freedom of speech,

403
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,209
that this is a bit like this amateur show.

404
00:23:03,289 --> 00:23:04,574
It's probably because

405
00:23:04,654 --> 00:23:08,421
for many people, if I try to think of such

406
00:23:08,501 --> 00:23:09,972
a benevolent interpretation once again,

407
00:23:10,052 --> 00:23:13,508
that many of us certainly take this issue

408
00:23:13,588 --> 00:23:17,976
seriously—protecting children—and that's a good thing, but it's just that

409
00:23:18,056 --> 00:23:22,009
if that technological understanding isn't very

410
00:23:22,089 --> 00:23:23,289
advanced,

411
00:23:23,339 --> 00:23:27,159
then in a way you might make such somewhat

412
00:23:27,239 --> 00:23:29,144
stupid and ineffective decisions.

413
00:23:29,224 --> 00:23:33,488
And then one thing that is really important, and this was one

414
00:23:33,568 --> 00:23:38,017
thing that I'm not quite sure if it was Peter Sund who brought

415
00:23:38,097 --> 00:23:42,609
it up or when we did another episode a little bit

416
00:23:42,689 --> 00:23:43,974
related to this,

417
00:23:44,054 --> 00:23:48,317
so then these what is in Finnish false positives, so this

418
00:23:48,397 --> 00:23:52,660
possibility of false positive findings, or that it would be

419
00:23:52,740 --> 00:23:57,190
very possible that because the algorithms that identify

420
00:23:57,270 --> 00:23:59,920
this prohibited material

421
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:06,159
are inevitably imperfect, then it would lead to the fact

422
00:24:06,239 --> 00:24:12,399
that ordinary people could then

423
00:24:12,479 --> 00:24:16,758
be the subject of completely unfounded suspicion.

424
00:24:16,838 --> 00:24:21,629
A good example of this is now I'm not quite sure

425
00:24:21,709 --> 00:24:27,441
if this was in the United States, as I remember, there was a case like this,

426
00:24:27,521 --> 00:24:32,399
that there was a man who had sent a picture of his own child,

427
00:24:32,479 --> 00:24:36,074
his sick child, to a doctor.

428
00:24:36,154 --> 00:24:42,399
And now, I don't remember the details of this, it's probably been years

429
00:24:42,479 --> 00:24:46,843
since I read this, but it was a situation

430
00:24:46,923 --> 00:24:53,082
where there was something like this, apparently a skin problem or

431
00:24:53,162 --> 00:24:59,065
something like that, and then I had to consult a doctor and because of that, and

432
00:24:59,145 --> 00:25:00,345
then

433
00:25:00,395 --> 00:25:01,595
now I don't remember

434
00:25:01,645 --> 00:25:04,808
what it was, what device it was, and what it was.

435
00:25:04,888 --> 00:25:08,965
a company that then this this like a person's accounts eventually then ban,

436
00:25:09,045 --> 00:25:12,954
but in any case that message was then interpreted as such

437
00:25:13,034 --> 00:25:15,763
as forbidden forbidden material

438
00:25:15,843 --> 00:25:17,954
that would contain the use of children,

439
00:25:18,034 --> 00:25:21,886
even though it was so like addressed to a doctor and then because of that

440
00:25:21,966 --> 00:25:24,246
the man's accounts accounts disappeared. Yeah.

441
00:25:24,326 --> 00:25:28,066
So here is precisely this possibility of such like false false positive

442
00:25:28,146 --> 00:25:32,111
findings and and so if this mass surveillance were to happen

443
00:25:32,191 --> 00:25:36,044
specifically systematically and for everyone, then that would mean that

444
00:25:36,124 --> 00:25:38,684
even though the percentage probability

445
00:25:38,764 --> 00:25:42,673
that an individual message would be interpreted without reason would be relatively small,

446
00:25:42,753 --> 00:25:46,662
but then when those messages are forwarded in huge amounts,

447
00:25:46,742 --> 00:25:48,347
then that means

448
00:25:48,427 --> 00:25:51,886
that they would still come across anyway. Yeah.

449
00:25:51,966 --> 00:25:55,931
And that's related to your

450
00:25:56,011 --> 00:25:59,920
mystery of the missing YouTube episodes in the way that the punishment is usually like this, like

451
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,200
the platform,

452
00:26:01,250 --> 00:26:04,343
if it's like obliged to do some of these

453
00:26:04,423 --> 00:26:07,253
measures on behalf of the authorities, then that's a really rational solution.

454
00:26:07,333 --> 00:26:10,977
Now no one is paid to check anything or

455
00:26:11,057 --> 00:26:12,374
respond to complaints,

456
00:26:12,454 --> 00:26:16,040
that the account is just closed and then they don't respond to their messages.

457
00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:20,230
This unfortunately happens a lot and you also have to

458
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:22,384
interpret your story a little bit,

459
00:26:22,464 --> 00:26:26,690
that there was no rush to respond to anything on YouTube for almost a year,

460
00:26:26,770 --> 00:26:30,997
but then when this juicy tweet and Swedish post come out and

461
00:26:31,077 --> 00:26:35,070
then suddenly some customer service person there is interested.

462
00:26:35,150 --> 00:26:36,933
So the thing is,

463
00:26:37,013 --> 00:26:41,239
we weren't aware of this, that they were like gone.

464
00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:42,519
Yeah.

465
00:26:42,569 --> 00:26:45,604
So basically you can say here yes you can tip

466
00:26:45,684 --> 00:26:46,884
your hat to YouTube for

467
00:26:46,934 --> 00:26:50,492
reacting quite quickly here however it's a matter of days and not

468
00:26:50,572 --> 00:26:53,344
weeks or months. Yeah.

469
00:26:53,424 --> 00:26:55,497
But it's very possible

470
00:26:55,577 --> 00:26:59,454
that when the quarter did that thing and even asked about this

471
00:26:59,534 --> 00:27:00,734
issue,

472
00:27:00,784 --> 00:27:04,334
then it kind of sped up the

473
00:27:04,414 --> 00:27:05,614
resolution of this issue.

474
00:27:05,664 --> 00:27:10,265
But then you also don't even know what that's like here or

475
00:27:10,345 --> 00:27:15,023
that's like child abuse related

476
00:27:15,103 --> 00:27:17,092
material,

477
00:27:17,172 --> 00:27:21,989
so what would be essential or especially important was

478
00:27:22,069 --> 00:27:23,269
that

479
00:27:23,319 --> 00:27:27,437
it would focus on where the original problem is.

480
00:27:27,517 --> 00:27:32,265
there like production yeah side then if it's just like this

481
00:27:32,345 --> 00:27:37,092
like this so when patch patch you're pretending to be doing something that

482
00:27:37,172 --> 00:27:41,368
doesn't really fix that problem then then it like

483
00:27:41,448 --> 00:27:46,472
the original problem still remains unsolved yeah was it

484
00:27:46,552 --> 00:27:51,368
Julius Kivimäki's so I would answer that Thor server was

485
00:27:51,448 --> 00:27:56,058
however found with some like a spin somewhere like

486
00:27:56,138 --> 00:27:59,920
France there police work there now of course quite

487
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,163
difficult when then the best possible protection technology

488
00:28:04,243 --> 00:28:07,450
like torri is used and then like finding those bad guys in a way.

489
00:28:07,530 --> 00:28:09,123
Oh well then you could think

490
00:28:09,203 --> 00:28:12,828
that this is of course a crazy topic like child

491
00:28:12,908 --> 00:28:14,263
abuse material

492
00:28:14,343 --> 00:28:18,207
that should then just then some artificial intelligence fantasy

493
00:28:18,287 --> 00:28:19,487
be implemented for them then

494
00:28:19,542 --> 00:28:23,526
so that real people like children are not treated worse.

495
00:28:23,606 --> 00:28:27,530
So, this is actually a really ethically challenging question and I

496
00:28:27,610 --> 00:28:31,832
think there are two perspectives on it and I understand very

497
00:28:31,912 --> 00:28:33,804
well the intuitive reaction

498
00:28:33,884 --> 00:28:36,374
that many people probably have,

499
00:28:36,454 --> 00:28:40,737
that even if it was produced by an act, it should be prohibited

500
00:28:40,817 --> 00:28:44,800
because it evokes a feeling that this is so

501
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,653
wrong because it looks like that.

502
00:28:46,733 --> 00:28:50,119
Then of course the other side is that if there is no victim,

503
00:28:50,199 --> 00:28:53,287
if it is just pixels created by artificial intelligence,

504
00:28:53,367 --> 00:28:54,900
then is there a problem?

505
00:28:54,980 --> 00:28:57,470
And here, someone might say

506
00:28:57,550 --> 00:28:59,920
that if watching this kind of material,

507
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,260
even if it was created by an act, increases the likelihood,

508
00:29:03,340 --> 00:29:07,838
that the person would start to realize those fantasies in real life,

509
00:29:07,918 --> 00:29:10,312
then that's why it should be banned.

510
00:29:10,392 --> 00:29:14,085
Then someone else will say that or might say

511
00:29:14,165 --> 00:29:15,365
that specifically that

512
00:29:15,415 --> 00:29:19,528
if you could stay in that fantasy created by artificial intelligence,

513
00:29:19,608 --> 00:29:21,941
then that would specifically mean that

514
00:29:22,021 --> 00:29:26,332
then you wouldn't need to need that so that then children would actually

515
00:29:26,412 --> 00:29:29,673
be saved, but but this is, for example, such a thing

516
00:29:29,753 --> 00:29:31,961
that I don't have research information about

517
00:29:32,041 --> 00:29:36,229
how this kind of material created by artificial intelligence would affect

518
00:29:36,309 --> 00:29:39,631
people's behavior in real life. Yeah,

519
00:29:39,711 --> 00:29:44,085
with artificial intelligence, I guess we'll be able to track down these

520
00:29:44,165 --> 00:29:48,477
criminal gangs who create that material a little better.

521
00:29:48,557 --> 00:29:51,260
Let's hope that it can at least be removed now.

522
00:29:51,340 --> 00:29:54,106
That could be a similar question.

523
00:29:54,186 --> 00:29:58,374
This discussion is a bit confusing when it comes to drugs, with some people believing

524
00:29:58,454 --> 00:29:59,920
that by specifically preventing

525
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,587
all users and criminalizing everything,

526
00:30:02,667 --> 00:30:06,110
this is exactly the right way to do it and just increasing punishment and

527
00:30:06,190 --> 00:30:08,158
keeping it out, and others believing

528
00:30:08,238 --> 00:30:10,777
that if you somehow remove the criminal cause,

529
00:30:10,857 --> 00:30:12,682
then in a way, the use will also decrease.

530
00:30:12,762 --> 00:30:16,110
And yes, I could still imagine that in practice, if I believed

531
00:30:16,190 --> 00:30:19,158
that almost all people think that it would be better

532
00:30:19,238 --> 00:30:21,634
if people watched some material,

533
00:30:21,714 --> 00:30:23,825
then it would be better if it was something

534
00:30:23,905 --> 00:30:27,253
that was produced by artificial intelligence and not something that is, like, if

535
00:30:27,333 --> 00:30:28,539
the world was like that,

536
00:30:28,619 --> 00:30:30,825
as if artificial intelligence produced the solution,

537
00:30:30,905 --> 00:30:34,063
then that exploitation would then be gone and that would be like,

538
00:30:34,143 --> 00:30:36,634
even couples probably have such a forced opinion,

539
00:30:36,714 --> 00:30:39,349
so you know, this is really a bit of speculation,

540
00:30:39,429 --> 00:30:41,587
that should we then create a register

541
00:30:41,667 --> 00:30:43,349
where you can voluntarily declare

542
00:30:43,429 --> 00:30:46,825
that you now have such a perversion and then in a way they give

543
00:30:46,905 --> 00:30:48,968
you medication for it, this is for you, this is the equipment,

544
00:30:49,048 --> 00:30:52,253
that you use, use this fantasy like that, that yes, but somehow it feels

545
00:30:52,333 --> 00:30:55,587
like this is a harsh subject, that and specifically the most important thing

546
00:30:55,667 --> 00:30:58,872
is that you won't have those children, that it would be a terrible

547
00:30:58,952 --> 00:31:00,152
fate if that happens.

548
00:31:00,202 --> 00:31:04,353
One of them is true and this was the one that was posted,

549
00:31:04,433 --> 00:31:06,792
so it's a very interesting contradiction.

550
00:31:06,872 --> 00:31:11,521
Even though they don't have a direct connection with each other,

551
00:31:11,601 --> 00:31:15,733
they are still related to the same topic. And that's

552
00:31:15,813 --> 00:31:21,201
because in Finland, if you think about what's happening

553
00:31:21,281 --> 00:31:22,481
at the same time,

554
00:31:22,531 --> 00:31:27,112
a few years ago in Finland, schools were given this respect

555
00:31:27,192 --> 00:31:32,137
for boys in sex books and there were really three

556
00:31:32,217 --> 00:31:34,058
very special passages in it.

557
00:31:34,138 --> 00:31:37,309
But now you still have to remember that it's a book

558
00:31:37,389 --> 00:31:39,821
that's been given to middle schools,

559
00:31:39,901 --> 00:31:43,442
where students may be 12-16 years old.

560
00:31:43,522 --> 00:31:47,950
And there was a passage in it where they taught

561
00:31:48,030 --> 00:31:52,531
how to practice deepthroating with a banana.

562
00:31:52,611 --> 00:31:55,413
So, for boys, for everyone

563
00:31:55,493 --> 00:31:59,920
who reads it, regardless of gender. Yeah.

564
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,754
So this was a book

565
00:32:01,834 --> 00:32:05,956
that apparently wasn't used systematically in all schools,

566
00:32:06,036 --> 00:32:08,500
but there were some schools

567
00:32:08,580 --> 00:32:12,346
where Pirkka used to teach this, there were some schools

568
00:32:12,426 --> 00:32:16,547
where this was discussed in lessons and there were

569
00:32:16,627 --> 00:32:17,827
instructions

570
00:32:17,877 --> 00:32:21,399
on how to practice deepthroating with bananas and

571
00:32:21,479 --> 00:32:25,719
it was even so that even if you vomited, you

572
00:32:25,799 --> 00:32:28,322
could still practice with a banana.

573
00:32:28,402 --> 00:32:30,512
And then again, you wonder

574
00:32:30,592 --> 00:32:34,713
why anyone 12 or 13 years old needs to know anything like that, why

575
00:32:34,793 --> 00:32:38,914
anyone 15 years old needs to know anything like that?

576
00:32:38,994 --> 00:32:43,115
Oh, they're all there, you can learn them as an adult if

577
00:32:43,195 --> 00:32:46,488
you feel like it. There was also a point where they taught you

578
00:32:46,568 --> 00:32:49,920
how to practice anal sex to the point

579
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,062
where you stick a carrot in your own backside. And then you wonder,

580
00:32:54,142 --> 00:32:58,204
now and so this is really so even though you can laugh at this,

581
00:32:58,284 --> 00:32:59,920
this is a really serious matter,

582
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,200
if you think about it like

583
00:33:01,250 --> 00:33:04,696
that they didn't at least make these machine foundations in the act. Yes.

584
00:33:04,776 --> 00:33:08,292
Well yes yes it's with the other one the other one goes into the same category.

585
00:33:08,372 --> 00:33:09,902
There weren't any children there,

586
00:33:09,982 --> 00:33:12,800
but it was still a bit of a special case.

587
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,772
But so this really you don't like that shoving all things up the backside

588
00:33:16,852 --> 00:33:18,865
as a principle is dangerous.

589
00:33:18,945 --> 00:33:22,782
So like if you think about it from a surgical perspective. The doctor there is talking.

590
00:33:22,862 --> 00:33:24,062
Well fake doctor,

591
00:33:24,112 --> 00:33:27,076
because I really don't have a degree at least not yet.

592
00:33:27,156 --> 00:33:28,954
You heard it from the pharyngeal canal here.

593
00:33:29,034 --> 00:33:31,315
Don't shove things up the backside. Yeah yeah.

594
00:33:31,395 --> 00:33:33,838
and then that's it and specifically that

595
00:33:33,918 --> 00:33:35,662
and then that's it I don't remember

596
00:33:35,742 --> 00:33:38,024
if

597
00:33:38,104 --> 00:33:41,834
there were any instructions in it,

598
00:33:41,914 --> 00:33:45,645
how to somehow heat the carrot or soften it or

599
00:33:45,725 --> 00:33:49,562
does it

600
00:33:49,642 --> 00:33:53,426
have

601
00:33:53,506 --> 00:33:56,968
to

602
00:33:57,048 --> 00:33:59,920
do

603
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,862
with

604
00:34:02,942 --> 00:34:05,681
the

605
00:34:05,761 --> 00:34:10,032
banana

606
00:34:10,112 --> 00:34:14,322
but but

607
00:34:14,402 --> 00:34:18,367
but

608
00:34:18,447 --> 00:34:22,903
anyway

609
00:34:22,983 --> 00:34:25,844
it

610
00:34:25,924 --> 00:34:29,767
was

611
00:34:29,847 --> 00:34:31,360
n't that

612
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,712
So, if there's one good thing to say about that book, like that passage

613
00:34:35,792 --> 00:34:39,511
, it's that it did say, like it brought up the fact

614
00:34:39,591 --> 00:34:43,250
that it's not a good idea to send these pictures to anyone

615
00:34:43,330 --> 00:34:45,272
who doesn't want to receive them. For example

616
00:34:45,352 --> 00:34:49,746
, you know, I don't think dick pics are drawn

617
00:34:49,826 --> 00:34:54,282
, so that's a good thing, but you know, at the same time, the police

618
00:34:54,362 --> 00:34:58,510
in Finland are very concerned about this kind of

619
00:34:58,590 --> 00:34:59,920
child abuse and

620
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,858
that there are adults who try to get

621
00:35:03,938 --> 00:35:07,970
children to send themselves, you know, you know, you know,

622
00:35:08,050 --> 00:35:12,024
there's a book where children are taught that this is how

623
00:35:12,104 --> 00:35:16,136
it's done, well, of course, someone might say that this is

624
00:35:16,216 --> 00:35:18,105
just the modern world and it's better

625
00:35:18,185 --> 00:35:21,928
that children are given at least some information than

626
00:35:22,008 --> 00:35:25,403
if they were completely in the dark, but you know, the situation is

627
00:35:25,483 --> 00:35:28,646
that we have a high school in Finland,

628
00:35:28,726 --> 00:35:32,642
where children are taught how to send sexy pictures

629
00:35:32,722 --> 00:35:35,596
that show their own genitals, and then we have the EU,

630
00:35:35,676 --> 00:35:39,418
which is pushing for mass surveillance to identify precisely the material

631
00:35:39,498 --> 00:35:43,240
that, in the book distributed to high schools in Finland, children

632
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:44,804
are taught to send. Yeah.

633
00:35:44,884 --> 00:35:49,090
So this is me, I'm not saying that there are systematically some pedophiles everywhere

634
00:35:49,170 --> 00:35:52,739
who, like, really want to, like, when they get there,

635
00:35:52,819 --> 00:35:56,561
because so, like, that really really malicious interpretation would be

636
00:35:56,641 --> 00:35:59,920
that this is all somehow planned, that

637
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,540
now it's now like, at the same time, children are being taught to send and then there

638
00:36:04,620 --> 00:36:09,225
's this material and then there's still building an identification mechanism and

639
00:36:09,305 --> 00:36:11,471
then we really get access to it.

640
00:36:11,551 --> 00:36:15,129
In my opinion, this is this is like that that's going too far,

641
00:36:15,209 --> 00:36:19,556
that no, yeah, fortunately, we here like that as responsible people,

642
00:36:19,636 --> 00:36:24,241
as representatives of the tube media, we can talk about these things and we're not being chased

643
00:36:24,321 --> 00:36:28,990
by this like, the fringe movement with that climactic axe and really this

644
00:36:29,070 --> 00:36:33,610
Anastiina Kallius of Helsingin Sanomat vomiting and dodging won't stop

645
00:36:33,690 --> 00:36:34,890
the rise of the fringe media,

646
00:36:34,940 --> 00:36:38,679
so this doesn't concern us, so we can this is a completely safe space

647
00:36:38,759 --> 00:36:41,182
we can talk about these things,

648
00:36:41,262 --> 00:36:45,867
but this discussion is a bit forced to take this here so

649
00:36:45,947 --> 00:36:48,626
because now we were talking earlier about the fact

650
00:36:48,706 --> 00:36:53,182
that YouTube maybe blogged two of your episodes for rational reasons or

651
00:36:53,262 --> 00:36:56,840
at least their EU visibility and this mystery has now been solved,

652
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,920
so then in a way it's a bit like the same thing,

653
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,731
that we have this official media,

654
00:37:02,811 --> 00:37:07,191
which then invites this essayist to condemn these these

655
00:37:07,271 --> 00:37:11,529
sides and 23 minutes of gibberish but it's worth watching and then those

656
00:37:11,609 --> 00:37:14,156
arguments were really strange,

657
00:37:14,236 --> 00:37:16,295
that mostly what I remembered was

658
00:37:16,375 --> 00:37:20,022
that this essayist's inner circle feels physically

659
00:37:20,102 --> 00:37:24,177
sick when they have to hear such dangerous opinions

660
00:37:24,257 --> 00:37:28,331
that don't agree with their political worldview,

661
00:37:28,411 --> 00:37:31,325
that they might even vomit them,

662
00:37:31,405 --> 00:37:35,847
they might get a headache and they might get such a

663
00:37:35,927 --> 00:37:38,291
feeling of rage, that how is this allowed,

664
00:37:38,371 --> 00:37:41,712
that no, and then there was a bit of an idea,

665
00:37:41,792 --> 00:37:44,889
that well, you can have that opinion about everything,

666
00:37:44,969 --> 00:37:48,678
but there weren't really any facts in it arguments

667
00:37:48,758 --> 00:37:52,221
that 23 minutes, which is almost as productive as you,

668
00:37:52,301 --> 00:37:56,376
in one episode there was a bit of unpleasant talk about that

669
00:37:56,456 --> 00:37:59,920
guy from Hungary, who can't be found. Well, I don't know what you think,

670
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,640
did you watch this Hesarin's story behind the Paywall and what

671
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:06,773
did you breathe, what feelings did you get?

672
00:38:06,853 --> 00:38:09,424
I'm not saying that you already have a headache from that.

673
00:38:09,504 --> 00:38:14,209
I actually have to maybe

674
00:38:14,289 --> 00:38:18,476
criticize a little bit about those people who are outraged by this article.

675
00:38:18,556 --> 00:38:23,131
I'm not saying everyone and because anyway I think it feels like

676
00:38:23,211 --> 00:38:26,881
sometimes if you throw something like this right-wing,

677
00:38:26,961 --> 00:38:30,890
right-wing conservative, all these stigmas they are really

678
00:38:30,970 --> 00:38:32,170
inaccurate,

679
00:38:32,220 --> 00:38:36,321
but but I could imagine the hypothesis that you don't say what you think yourself,

680
00:38:36,401 --> 00:38:37,873
but I could imagine

681
00:38:37,953 --> 00:38:42,140
that many of the people who thought or at least some of those people

682
00:38:42,220 --> 00:38:46,795
thought this Hesar story was just like somehow ridiculous and like

683
00:38:46,875 --> 00:38:48,217
they laughed at it,

684
00:38:48,297 --> 00:38:53,002
how can this now somehow I feel sick, like what kind of thing this is,

685
00:38:53,082 --> 00:38:57,657
some of those people probably could have written it themselves or

686
00:38:57,737 --> 00:38:59,920
I think a little bit that what

687
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,712
happened in Pridi, this sex swing in front of children, that it's like a table, that

688
00:39:04,792 --> 00:39:09,242
it's like vomiting and nausea and something like that.

689
00:39:09,322 --> 00:39:12,918
So in a way, although there is perhaps a difference here,

690
00:39:12,998 --> 00:39:15,347
that opinions are compared to

691
00:39:15,427 --> 00:39:18,301
something like that, something

692
00:39:18,381 --> 00:39:20,861
that happens in real life,

693
00:39:20,941 --> 00:39:25,719
because just like that, if we think about this material related

694
00:39:25,799 --> 00:39:27,032
to the use of children

695
00:39:27,112 --> 00:39:31,627
, then surely many people think it is so disgusting and quite

696
00:39:31,707 --> 00:39:34,712
understandably so, so in itself you could think

697
00:39:34,792 --> 00:39:39,307
that in a certain sense it feels like

698
00:39:39,387 --> 00:39:40,587
defending it.

699
00:39:40,637 --> 00:39:44,625
So I don't, I don't take a position on whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.

700
00:39:44,705 --> 00:39:47,776
öö I don't think defending might be the wrong word,

701
00:39:47,856 --> 00:39:49,745
but when you bring up the fact

702
00:39:49,825 --> 00:39:52,633
that people's moral intuitions about

703
00:39:52,713 --> 00:39:54,997
what is right and what is wrong,

704
00:39:55,077 --> 00:39:59,789
so many people or someone could say that everyone has them, they

705
00:39:59,869 --> 00:40:01,069
are

706
00:40:01,119 --> 00:40:04,071
in a certain sense like internal sins and they can be associated with

707
00:40:04,151 --> 00:40:05,351
bodily feelings

708
00:40:05,401 --> 00:40:09,747
that you can't control yourself and and in a way then depending

709
00:40:09,827 --> 00:40:12,738
on where the political aspects are,

710
00:40:12,818 --> 00:40:15,363
they just go in different directions,

711
00:40:15,443 --> 00:40:19,696
that for some then a sex swing in front of children is what causes

712
00:40:19,776 --> 00:40:24,030
that like a feeling of imagery and then for others then wrong

713
00:40:24,110 --> 00:40:28,364
opinions about Hungary are what wakes them up or something or where so yeah

714
00:40:28,444 --> 00:40:32,392
myself so yeah yeah yes it's annoying now when I heard about this

715
00:40:32,472 --> 00:40:36,482
middle school book where they stuff carrots in the backside and

716
00:40:36,562 --> 00:40:40,754
then take pictures of that mouthful and that other stuff like that so

717
00:40:40,834 --> 00:40:45,149
yeah oh yeah it's a little annoying now that like how much of this kind of

718
00:40:45,229 --> 00:40:49,422
shit there is but so in general so myself when There's some left-wing

719
00:40:49,502 --> 00:40:51,558
thing, which is what most of Finland is,

720
00:40:51,638 --> 00:40:55,403
but it doesn't really bother me and I can read it,

721
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,880
I guess it's some kind of physical feeling it annoys people's

722
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,459
endless stupidity they just misunderstand things.

723
00:41:11,539 --> 00:41:16,145
But yeah when they write that then I wouldn't have had to read it

724
00:41:16,225 --> 00:41:19,529
and often I don't read it and life is better than not reading.

725
00:41:19,609 --> 00:41:23,043
That's probably why they think

726
00:41:23,123 --> 00:41:27,728
that I don't want to listen to even a minute of it, like 23

727
00:41:27,808 --> 00:41:31,698
minutes or Roni's rating, and that they do whatever they want,

728
00:41:31,778 --> 00:41:36,318
but is there any need to generalize it somehow, to generalize

729
00:41:36,398 --> 00:41:38,466
that you do what you want as an individual,

730
00:41:38,546 --> 00:41:43,151
but don't generalize it to something like that

731
00:41:43,231 --> 00:41:47,381
,

732
00:41:47,461 --> 00:41:52,067
Plus then like is this some kind of a sample of some of that columnist's

733
00:41:52,147 --> 00:41:53,347
friends,

734
00:41:53,397 --> 00:41:57,403
that if they have a bit of a bad feeling now, it's because they're not listening

735
00:41:57,483 --> 00:42:01,958
to that, even if it's Ivan Puopolo, well, well, so it's

736
00:42:02,038 --> 00:42:03,520
kind of true what

737
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:04,800
you said earlier,

738
00:42:04,850 --> 00:42:08,506
that you don't feel anything like vomiting or anything like that,

739
00:42:08,586 --> 00:42:11,139
no, I haven't noticed either,

740
00:42:11,219 --> 00:42:13,940
so if that's the case, there are probably certain things,

741
00:42:14,020 --> 00:42:15,509
some individual things,

742
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:18,534
where that can come from, somehow I'm not quite sure

743
00:42:18,614 --> 00:42:20,271
what that physical feeling is,

744
00:42:20,351 --> 00:42:24,304
but somehow nevertheless that feeling, that if you read something,

745
00:42:24,384 --> 00:42:25,584
where it comes from,

746
00:42:25,634 --> 00:42:29,066
that this is really wrong, somehow really against your own sense of justice

747
00:42:29,146 --> 00:42:32,484
or something like that, so yes, yes, yes, it depends a bit on

748
00:42:32,564 --> 00:42:36,013
how analytically you're in that moment when you're reading.

749
00:42:36,093 --> 00:42:37,293
And then I guess

750
00:42:37,343 --> 00:42:40,383
that another thing that affects me is that

751
00:42:40,463 --> 00:42:43,800
since I obviously have some degree of Alexithymia,

752
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,442
then that too, and if someone thinks about what this means,

753
00:42:47,522 --> 00:42:50,635
then it's like a difficulty in recognizing emotions.

754
00:42:50,715 --> 00:42:53,716
So then, that you don't necessarily even know

755
00:42:53,796 --> 00:42:57,862
what kind of bodily emotions you have or can access them

756
00:42:57,942 --> 00:43:02,007
. And it's also that, oh if and now I'm not saying

757
00:43:02,087 --> 00:43:03,520
how other people

758
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,976
are doing, but it's also possible that even if people who say

759
00:43:08,056 --> 00:43:11,852
that they don't feel any kind of emotions,

760
00:43:11,932 --> 00:43:15,016
it could be that they actually do,

761
00:43:15,096 --> 00:43:19,408
but you don't recognize them and then those emotions might still affect

762
00:43:19,488 --> 00:43:23,025
what you think about your own reading,

763
00:43:23,105 --> 00:43:27,417
but yeah, there's definitely a lot of individual variation here,

764
00:43:27,497 --> 00:43:31,873
but what you said about this, or even in relation to

765
00:43:31,953 --> 00:43:33,165
the essay itself,

766
00:43:33,245 --> 00:43:37,815
yes, this is just a very good advertisement for all of them

767
00:43:37,895 --> 00:43:41,238
and this is something that has been thought about,

768
00:43:41,318 --> 00:43:44,919
that it would be really, really interesting to know

769
00:43:44,999 --> 00:43:48,536
that this writer, that you didn't think about it,

770
00:43:48,616 --> 00:43:52,928
that now it's like a direct input into these podcasts

771
00:43:53,008 --> 00:43:56,997
and actually I could say this to the entire podcast field,

772
00:43:57,077 --> 00:44:00,355
because if you think about that, that ethos,

773
00:44:00,435 --> 00:44:03,520
which maybe in many of these podcasts or The thing about

774
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,958
the pods mentioned in those essays is

775
00:44:07,038 --> 00:44:11,458
that there is such a confrontation

776
00:44:11,538 --> 00:44:13,520
with the mainstream media or actually the institutional media,

777
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,332
so now this essay is kind of reinforcing the image

778
00:44:17,412 --> 00:44:21,645
that that confrontation is real and then basically these

779
00:44:21,725 --> 00:44:24,270
pods get a free victim point because,

780
00:44:24,350 --> 00:44:28,458
look at how they are trying to silence us from somewhere up there

781
00:44:28,538 --> 00:44:31,958
or yeah and when those arguments were so arrogant,

782
00:44:32,038 --> 00:44:36,458
because what annoys me here is maybe the leftist

783
00:44:36,538 --> 00:44:40,895
media, if I can generalize, then in the counter-argumentation,

784
00:44:40,975 --> 00:44:45,145
they come up with some kind of scapegoat, even though it was that

785
00:44:45,225 --> 00:44:48,208
somehow Orban was desperately found,

786
00:44:48,288 --> 00:44:51,895
who was not kicked out, and then it was roughly said

787
00:44:51,975 --> 00:44:56,520
that because during Orban's time the opposition was suppressed and they were

788
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,458
a bit leftist there,

789
00:44:58,538 --> 00:45:01,145
so it's a bit the same thing here,

790
00:45:01,225 --> 00:45:03,520
but then you see, in fact

791
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,339
, there is a bit of shadow media in the United States,

792
00:45:07,419 --> 00:45:11,405
so in Finland they are not leftist, but rightist,

793
00:45:11,485 --> 00:45:15,471
so somehow those arguments were in my opinion really

794
00:45:15,551 --> 00:45:19,721
unclear, what was the analogy that was being tried to make, but also

795
00:45:19,801 --> 00:45:22,925
that they were just trying to say Hungary is bad,

796
00:45:23,005 --> 00:45:27,421
Orban is bad, oh, so some signs of laxity, then with this

797
00:45:27,501 --> 00:45:31,610
, with the tube scene, it just felt really lax,

798
00:45:31,690 --> 00:45:33,705
but I agree with you

799
00:45:33,785 --> 00:45:38,079
that this was a very good advertisement and I'm a little sad

800
00:45:38,159 --> 00:45:42,144
that I would have actually liked to be on that list,

801
00:45:42,224 --> 00:45:46,580
but if you write again, put a negotiator there,

802
00:45:46,660 --> 00:45:48,551
that I would like this.

803
00:45:48,631 --> 00:45:51,138
So now we can't say

804
00:45:51,218 --> 00:45:55,697
that we are such and such media. Yes. Yep. Hesar Hesari at least is not.

805
00:45:55,777 --> 00:46:00,009
And so I've been thinking about whether there could be something like that there too, just

806
00:46:00,089 --> 00:46:03,520
as a hypothesis, because we have also

807
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,570
had the editor-in-chief of Hesar as a guest and we have

808
00:46:07,650 --> 00:46:10,374
had a journalist from Hesar. I've had many too.

809
00:46:10,454 --> 00:46:14,610
Yes, absolutely and in the future, the journalist from Hesar will be invited.

810
00:46:14,690 --> 00:46:18,972
So that would be it, I don't think they'll ever get us there, so that's

811
00:46:19,052 --> 00:46:22,897
for sure or well I don't know, I don't know, maybe maybe less likely,

812
00:46:22,977 --> 00:46:25,763
but of course it would be a positive surprise.

813
00:46:25,843 --> 00:46:29,127
But the fact that it might seem a bit strange

814
00:46:29,207 --> 00:46:31,308
if you said that it was the media,

815
00:46:31,388 --> 00:46:34,050
but still you are a guest yourself,

816
00:46:34,130 --> 00:46:38,411
then it might become a kind of

817
00:46:38,491 --> 00:46:42,897
cognitive dissonance, but but that's it and then maybe that's it,

818
00:46:42,977 --> 00:46:47,134
that even though we don't, if I think about it like a topic of conversation,

819
00:46:47,214 --> 00:46:51,308
we haven't criticized Hesar, but it doesn't feel

820
00:46:51,388 --> 00:46:55,919
like we have at any point been clearly profiled

821
00:46:55,999 --> 00:47:00,156
against Hesar or anything, and then it's like in a

822
00:47:00,236 --> 00:47:03,520
certain sense we are more diplomatic, if

823
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:04,826
I can say so.

824
00:47:04,906 --> 00:47:09,461
I may have taken a more critical

825
00:47:09,541 --> 00:47:12,203
line in X at times, but it's exciting to see

826
00:47:12,283 --> 00:47:15,598
that when this development goes a little further,

827
00:47:15,678 --> 00:47:20,038
because those advertising clubs are constantly moving from institutional

828
00:47:20,118 --> 00:47:24,869
media to this new, whatever

829
00:47:24,949 --> 00:47:27,285
you call these orchestras, in a way, onto them,

830
00:47:27,365 --> 00:47:32,051
and at the same time when the audience moves, like the advertising clubs move and

831
00:47:32,131 --> 00:47:36,882
the audience moves and of course they go hand in hand, which means that

832
00:47:36,962 --> 00:47:38,841
influence also moves,

833
00:47:38,921 --> 00:47:41,779
then I wouldn't be surprised at all

834
00:47:41,859 --> 00:47:45,696
that if this is in a certain sense the first taste of

835
00:47:45,776 --> 00:47:49,679
what's coming in five or ten years,

836
00:47:49,759 --> 00:47:53,988
that because Hesari and Yle are trying to maintain their own

837
00:47:54,068 --> 00:47:58,754
legitimacy and then trying to hold on to those advertising clubs,

838
00:47:58,834 --> 00:48:03,520
then it can lower the threshold and then in a certain sense attack.

839
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,667
This is a really naive cancellation attempt by so many people

840
00:48:07,747 --> 00:48:08,947
,

841
00:48:08,997 --> 00:48:13,219
but Yle gets its 570 million for its

842
00:48:13,299 --> 00:48:17,500
free content and uninterrupted

843
00:48:17,580 --> 00:48:21,246
production of content without commercial interruptions. That's not to say that this argument doesn't apply to it,

844
00:48:21,326 --> 00:48:25,995
but Yle of course wants to defend its 570 million

845
00:48:26,075 --> 00:48:30,477
tax dollars and defends it very aggressively.

846
00:48:30,557 --> 00:48:34,891
Of course, it wants to hold on to every tax loophole.

847
00:48:34,971 --> 00:48:38,503
Yeah, yeah. But it's interesting that C-sami said there

848
00:48:38,583 --> 00:48:43,052
that you'll have expert guests about how it's developing.

849
00:48:43,132 --> 00:48:46,798
But do you still have that?

850
00:48:46,878 --> 00:48:49,273
Any points about the legislative level?

851
00:48:49,353 --> 00:48:52,550
Maybe the big picture is that if you think about it,

852
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:54,824
whenever legislation is created

853
00:48:54,904 --> 00:48:59,306
that in some way restricts freedom of speech or increases

854
00:48:59,386 --> 00:49:03,520
surveillance or is a step towards a police state, I think

855
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,997
it's worth being really careful and very careful,

856
00:49:07,077 --> 00:49:10,593
because right now, right now, when this episode is being filmed, it's like

857
00:49:10,673 --> 00:49:11,948
Räsänen and Tynkky,

858
00:49:12,028 --> 00:49:16,192
they didn't get into the UK, and then some people on social

859
00:49:16,272 --> 00:49:18,667
media were laughing a little bit about it,

860
00:49:18,747 --> 00:49:22,263
that now Tynkkynen is getting a taste of his own medicine,

861
00:49:22,343 --> 00:49:26,329
because Tynkkynen himself has called for an entry ban on

862
00:49:26,409 --> 00:49:28,451
various or certain people.

863
00:49:28,531 --> 00:49:32,577
And now that Tykkinen is rich himself, now he's getting his own medicine.

864
00:49:32,657 --> 00:49:36,938
I don't know if that's it, I understand the point,

865
00:49:37,018 --> 00:49:39,885
but then you can't, it's a different matter,

866
00:49:39,965 --> 00:49:43,363
whether you consider the things that some people have been convicted of

867
00:49:43,443 --> 00:49:47,606
to be of equal value or whether you generally

868
00:49:47,686 --> 00:49:48,886
think

869
00:49:48,936 --> 00:49:52,145
that Tynkkönen basically deserved these sentences.

870
00:49:52,225 --> 00:49:54,384
The interesting situation with Räsen is

871
00:49:54,464 --> 00:49:58,569
that Räsänen himself was, as I understand it, promoting

872
00:49:58,649 --> 00:50:02,105
the legislation that led to Räsäne's latest sentence. For example

873
00:50:02,185 --> 00:50:03,520
, regarding the acquittal

874
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,324
, what does this quoting of the Bible have to do with

875
00:50:06,404 --> 00:50:10,810
it, in my opinion, all politicians should

876
00:50:10,890 --> 00:50:12,554
think very carefully about

877
00:50:12,634 --> 00:50:16,978
whether they should start doing some kind of mass surveillance,

878
00:50:17,058 --> 00:50:18,909
which is specifically related to the fact

879
00:50:18,989 --> 00:50:23,271
that you don't post inappropriate

880
00:50:23,351 --> 00:50:25,451
content related to child abuse there,

881
00:50:25,531 --> 00:50:30,062
what if as a result you yourself end up being wrongly flagged

882
00:50:30,142 --> 00:50:32,118
and that causes problems for yourself.

883
00:50:32,198 --> 00:50:36,666
How many politicians take into account that, then any other

884
00:50:36,746 --> 00:50:38,972
thing, what can follow from it,

885
00:50:39,052 --> 00:50:43,458
which at the moment does not necessarily even come to mind, or does not

886
00:50:43,538 --> 00:50:46,884
even come to mind, and then if you think about Finland,

887
00:50:46,964 --> 00:50:51,184
it seems to me that we Finns have a somewhat naive or

888
00:50:51,264 --> 00:50:55,296
blue-eyed attitude towards those in power and

889
00:50:55,376 --> 00:50:56,916
especially towards the authorities,

890
00:50:56,996 --> 00:51:00,218
that we think that the authorities somehow act correctly,

891
00:51:00,298 --> 00:51:03,520
that although in connection with this Guard Helsinki there is now

892
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:08,645
a discussion or has been a discussion about this structural corruption

893
00:51:08,725 --> 00:51:12,986
or good brotherhood networks, but then perhaps we somehow think

894
00:51:13,066 --> 00:51:17,399
that those authorities nevertheless act correctly in principle,

895
00:51:17,479 --> 00:51:20,815
but we nevertheless have a drug police boss

896
00:51:20,895 --> 00:51:24,801
who was sentenced to prison. So, if there are tools

897
00:51:24,881 --> 00:51:29,926
that can be used to somehow monitor ordinary citizens and

898
00:51:30,006 --> 00:51:34,766
mark them or something like that, can we trust

899
00:51:34,846 --> 00:51:39,392
that the people who control and use those tools

900
00:51:39,472 --> 00:51:44,659
will always work correctly and not in the same way as

901
00:51:44,739 --> 00:51:49,783
the boss of the drug police and so on, another thing that I

902
00:51:49,863 --> 00:51:51,705
think is worth thinking about.

903
00:51:51,785 --> 00:51:56,758
This is actually also related to this entry ban,

904
00:51:56,838 --> 00:51:59,748
that if someone is satisfied that,

905
00:51:59,828 --> 00:52:03,520
well, Tynkkyne and Rasanen

906
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:04,800
were not allowed into the country,

907
00:52:04,850 --> 00:52:08,086
then what if the next government in Britain is

908
00:52:08,166 --> 00:52:11,803
clearly right-wing or right-wing conservative and

909
00:52:11,883 --> 00:52:15,361
then they have the legislative framework in place

910
00:52:15,441 --> 00:52:18,812
that can prevent people from coming into the country and they are

911
00:52:18,892 --> 00:52:22,423
only targeting people like each other or

912
00:52:22,503 --> 00:52:24,440
people who have different opinions,

913
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,414
that in my opinion it is always worth thinking about that

914
00:52:27,494 --> 00:52:29,591
if there were people in power

915
00:52:29,671 --> 00:52:33,520
who you don't like and whose political opinions are completely

916
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,493
opposite to what you have, what would happen

917
00:52:36,573 --> 00:52:39,042
if those people had the tools

918
00:52:39,122 --> 00:52:42,387
that you are creating and what would the world look like then?

919
00:52:42,467 --> 00:52:46,104
That is something in my opinion that is always worth thinking about and

920
00:52:46,184 --> 00:52:48,706
so really really carefully. Yeah, I agree.

921
00:52:48,786 --> 00:52:50,086
And then he also added

922
00:52:50,166 --> 00:52:53,538
that these channels should have some legal protection,

923
00:52:53,618 --> 00:52:57,201
so that if you can be blocked or canceled or

924
00:52:57,281 --> 00:52:59,485
marked as suspicious in some system,

925
00:52:59,565 --> 00:53:03,308
then there should be some right to audit it and then the right

926
00:53:03,388 --> 00:53:04,588
to

927
00:53:04,638 --> 00:53:06,190
establish some kind of connection to

928
00:53:06,270 --> 00:53:08,043
whether a miscarriage of justice is happening here.

929
00:53:08,123 --> 00:53:11,858
Like a little bit, like partly happening here in connection with your YouTube

930
00:53:11,938 --> 00:53:13,138
case.

931
00:53:13,188 --> 00:53:16,599
That's where I don't think I'd say maybe I'm not really saying it.

932
00:53:16,679 --> 00:53:20,577
Well yeah, but you got it now anyway like I have it too so I have

933
00:53:20,657 --> 00:53:23,629
for example had my own customer service on YouTube,

934
00:53:23,709 --> 00:53:27,389
so I could handle a similar situation with just

935
00:53:27,469 --> 00:53:29,896
that mass this like visibility brings power,

936
00:53:29,976 --> 00:53:33,602
which is really good yeah if but you just raise it or that Petri

937
00:53:33,682 --> 00:53:34,882
Kajander,

938
00:53:34,932 --> 00:53:38,125
who was a guest here so then he had meta just deleted his

939
00:53:38,205 --> 00:53:41,994
account so that other than that gives no chance to cancel it,

940
00:53:42,074 --> 00:53:45,318
that if you then do this with all the love but Petrel,

941
00:53:45,398 --> 00:53:49,242
that if you are so small, then you have no chance.

942
00:53:49,322 --> 00:53:53,057
To reverse such decisions is precisely yes, so that

943
00:53:53,137 --> 00:53:56,545
in a certain sense this risk of miscarriage of justice is a very, very

944
00:53:56,625 --> 00:54:00,523
important thing then if if you are like a small actor and if you don't have

945
00:54:00,603 --> 00:54:03,520
visibility if you don't have influence then and that is

946
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:07,582
in my opinion you can say that it is like a genuine genuine concern and just that

947
00:54:07,662 --> 00:54:11,818
if then this one example so if I remember from the US where

948
00:54:11,898 --> 00:54:15,532
this father had sent a picture of his sick child to

949
00:54:15,612 --> 00:54:19,768
the doctor and then because of that the accounts went away so that is an example

950
00:54:19,848 --> 00:54:21,741
of what can what can happen.

951
00:54:21,821 --> 00:54:25,512
And then if you think about it even though it was a relatively recent

952
00:54:25,592 --> 00:54:28,065
example as I remember it was some comic artist

953
00:54:28,145 --> 00:54:32,359
who had drawn some anime or something like that now I don't remember which

954
00:54:32,439 --> 00:54:35,609
country. So then then then those comics,

955
00:54:35,689 --> 00:54:38,800
which apparently weren't that problematic,

956
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:43,094
but somehow they were they were then they were so some algorithm had

957
00:54:43,174 --> 00:54:44,374
looked at

958
00:54:44,424 --> 00:54:47,446
that they were then anyway and then because of that everything went away.

959
00:54:47,526 --> 00:54:51,102
So basically I could say to everyone that

960
00:54:51,182 --> 00:54:55,222
you shouldn't store any really important information solely

961
00:54:55,302 --> 00:54:56,502
in the cloud,

962
00:54:56,552 --> 00:54:59,980
but that you should always have physical

963
00:55:00,060 --> 00:55:03,520
copies of everything, because and even if, even if, maybe

964
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:08,037
the probability of an individual person

965
00:55:08,117 --> 00:55:12,431
getting into this situation

966
00:55:12,511 --> 00:55:15,117
is relatively small.

967
00:55:15,197 --> 00:55:19,024
But if you want to play it safe, then it's a good idea to think

968
00:55:19,104 --> 00:55:21,404
about what your backup plan would be

969
00:55:21,484 --> 00:55:24,883
if that happens, and for example, the services you use,

970
00:55:24,963 --> 00:55:28,729
whether they have or can you add

971
00:55:28,809 --> 00:55:30,804
a second email address or something else,

972
00:55:30,884 --> 00:55:34,588
so that you don't have a single point of failure.

973
00:55:34,668 --> 00:55:39,105
So things don't just rely on one single point or

974
00:55:39,185 --> 00:55:43,317
one single thing and then if that single thing

975
00:55:43,397 --> 00:55:45,270
breaks, then it's Mm.

976
00:55:45,350 --> 00:55:49,176
Yeah, I actually suggest we go to the insider side.

977
00:55:49,256 --> 00:55:52,594
Let's talk a little about these and then about related matters.

978
00:55:52,674 --> 00:55:56,928
So, we have actually

979
00:55:57,008 --> 00:56:01,262
Rami Kurimo and I have both flirted a bit with Linux and Mac, and I guess neither of us have ever been

980
00:56:01,342 --> 00:56:03,520
PC fans, but that's about

981
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,361
it, when you've watched or listened to this,

982
00:56:07,441 --> 00:56:11,813
please like and subscribe to Rami's Puheenaihe channel, and

983
00:56:11,893 --> 00:56:14,374
all the comments help these algorithms,

984
00:56:14,454 --> 00:56:18,886
so that they can gain some power over this or that YouTube

985
00:56:18,966 --> 00:56:23,337
and Spotify channel, so that we seem relevant to them,

986
00:56:23,417 --> 00:56:26,508
so that this increases our power in this system.

987
00:56:26,588 --> 00:56:31,020
But I suggest we go to the insider side and talk about it, you

988
00:56:31,100 --> 00:56:35,349
bought a Macki Ultra and you demoed it in your studio and it played well

989
00:56:35,429 --> 00:56:37,605
. I've been a little bit annoyed,

990
00:56:37,685 --> 00:56:40,349
I have this one running in MCM,

991
00:56:40,429 --> 00:56:43,337
so I'm waiting for this when the moon rises for the M5 Ultra,

992
00:56:43,417 --> 00:56:44,983
so this is a bit related.

993
00:56:45,063 --> 00:56:49,435
At the same time, we looked at it a bit, compared it, said I have a couple of provinces, and

994
00:56:49,515 --> 00:56:52,057
how can we still get it up to security standards,

995
00:56:52,137 --> 00:56:56,142
so let's talk briefly about these two things in the inside circle.

996
00:56:56,222 --> 00:57:00,593
So is Mäkki pretty safe after all and how