{"title": "The Ahtisaari mystery: a negotiator's legacy | Alpo Rusi | Negotiator 221", "titleOriginal": "Martti Ahtisaari Palestiinassa | Alpo Rusi |  neuvottelija 221", "episodeNumber": "221", "guest": "Alpo Rusi", "publishedAt": "2023-11-10", "duration": "01:07:02", "durationIso": "PT1H7M2S", "youtube": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qibDAORsgSE", "fiCanonical": "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/339-martti-ahtisaari-palestiinassa-alpo-rusi-neuvottelija-221", "originalLanguage": "fi", "format": "full", "topics": ["geopolitics", "negotiation"], "description": "Dr Alpo Rusi, foreign policy adviser to President Martti Ahtisaari, joins Sami Miettinen three weeks after Ahtisaari's death. The starting point is a sentence Ahtisaari said in an interview for the book Uusi neuvotteluvalta and which kept nagging: after Namibia, did he intend to negotiate peace in the Middle East? Out of that comes an assessment of Ahtisaari's legacy as a negotiator — the Namibian mandate, the bombs behind the Kosovo mediation, Aceh's autonomy and Northern Ireland's outside verification — and Rusi's counter-thesis that the morality of foreign policy is measured in outcomes. Recorded a month after 7 October 2023, the second half is an opinionated reading of the Israel–Palestine conflict.", "chapters": [{"t": "00:00", "title": "Alpo Rusi, and the sentence Ahtisaari left unexplained about Middle East peace", "seconds": 0}, {"t": "00:56", "title": "Commercial notice", "seconds": 56}, {"t": "01:55", "title": "Rusi's main period working with President Ahtisaari begins with an analysis of the EU in 1991", "seconds": 115}, {"t": "03:30", "title": "The request to assist Ahtisaari in the presidential campaign", "seconds": 210}, {"t": "04:15", "title": "Erkki Tuomioja dubs Rusi 'Ahtisaari's Kissinger'; returning to Finland and travelling with the president", "seconds": 255}, {"t": "07:20", "title": "Kalevi Sorsa against Martti Ahtisaari, and Ahtisaari's change as a rejected second term approached", "seconds": 440}, {"t": "10:40", "title": "Mauno Koivisto's influence on relations with Russia", "seconds": 640}, {"t": "14:22", "title": "Ahtisaari believed in the rule of law", "seconds": 862}, {"t": "16:00", "title": "Ahtisaari, Nevala and Halonen: Rusi's trial, and how winning it did not undo the wrong", "seconds": 960}, {"t": "20:00", "title": "Presidential candidate Olli Rehn defending Rusi, almost alone", "seconds": 1200}, {"t": "21:40", "title": "Tarja Halonen's rise instead of Ahtisaari, under cover of relations with Russia", "seconds": 1300}, {"t": "23:50", "title": "Ahtisaari and Boris Yeltsin, the Balkan negotiations and Kosovo", "seconds": 1430}, {"t": "25:46", "title": "Did the Namibian mandate lead to an ambition to negotiate peace in the Middle East — the Ahtisaari mystery", "seconds": 1546}, {"t": "30:20", "title": "The UN once had power: the balance of forces in Kosovo and today", "seconds": 1820}, {"t": "32:27", "title": "Ahtisaari in Northern Ireland, and what success there offers Gaza", "seconds": 1947}, {"t": "33:36", "title": "From the Ottomans to the British mandate and the founding of Israel", "seconds": 2016}, {"t": "35:10", "title": "The two-state model", "seconds": 2110}, {"t": "38:00", "title": "The failure of the Oslo process, and Yasser Arafat", "seconds": 2280}, {"t": "39:05", "title": "From the river to the sea: the second intifada, and Hamas defeating Fatah", "seconds": 2345}, {"t": "41:20", "title": "Right-wing forces take power in Israel; the Arab states begin to accept Israel's legitimacy", "seconds": 2480}, {"t": "44:07", "title": "The rise of jihadist forces", "seconds": 2647}, {"t": "57:00", "title": "The endgame begins with destroying Hamas and the Arab states taking responsibility", "seconds": 3420}, {"t": "58:54", "title": "Ahtisaari's Aceh autonomy as a possible model for the Palestinian territories", "seconds": 3534}, {"t": "1:00:01", "title": "Israel is a democracy, perhaps even a European state", "seconds": 3601}, {"t": "1:02:23", "title": "The Middle East conflict is not a conflict between religions", "seconds": 3743}, {"t": "1:03:36", "title": "Rusi remembers his good moments with Ahtisaari", "seconds": 3816}, {"t": "1:06:34", "title": "Inner Circle: the machinery that sought a treason charge, and lost", "seconds": 3994}], "sourceTranscriptType": "none", "subtitleMethod": "none", "provenance": "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata, the neuvottelija.fi episode record and the publisher's own chapter marks, translated one for one; their spacing is irregular and matches the recording. No transcript is published here — the channel has no English caption track for this episode and the Finnish one is YouTube's automatic track. The episode contains a commercial notice read out near the start, and its second half is one adviser's strongly held reading of a conflict that was three weeks old at the time of recording; the long-form write-up in the Neuvottelija AI editions states both and does not adopt the episode's positions.", "coreTheses": ["Ahtisaari's method is visible across four very different mediations: a mandate in Namibia, force behind the talks in Kosovo, autonomy in Aceh and outside verification in Northern Ireland.", "The guest's counter-thesis is that the morality of foreign policy is measured in outcomes rather than in intentions.", "Aceh's autonomy settlement is offered as the structural model that might apply to the Palestinian territories.", "The second half is one adviser's strongly held reading of a live conflict, recorded a month after 7 October 2023, and the article treats it as that."], "slug": "ep221-martti-ahtisaari-palestiinassa-alpo-rusi", "guestsCanonical": ["Alpo Rusi"], "guestPages": ["https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/guests/alpo-rusi/"], "page": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep221-martti-ahtisaari-palestiinassa-alpo-rusi/", "markdown": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep221-martti-ahtisaari-palestiinassa-alpo-rusi/index.md", "captions": null, "transcript": null, "videoId": "qibDAORsgSE", "dbId": null, "qaCoveragePct": 0.0, "qaSemanticVerdict": "metadata_only", "aiArticleEn": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep221-martti-ahtisaari-palestiinassa-alpo-rusi/", "aiArticleFi": "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/yhteiskunta/ep221-martti-ahtisaari-palestiinassa-alpo-rusi/"}