{"title": "The negotiating president | Pekka Haavisto | Negotiator 213", "titleOriginal": "Neuvotteleva Presidentti | Pekka Haavisto | Neuvottelija 213", "episodeNumber": "213", "guest": "Pekka Haavisto", "publishedAt": "2023-09-29", "duration": "44:50", "durationIso": "PT44M50S", "youtube": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ToqrxnEv2o", "fiCanonical": "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/324-neuvotteleva-presidentti-pekka-haavisto-neuvottelija-213", "originalLanguage": "fi", "format": "full", "topics": ["negotiation", "geopolitics"], "description": "Presidential candidate Pekka Haavisto joins Sami Miettinen four months before the election. The spine of the episode is four negotiating theses Haavisto formulated out of the Darfur peace talks: giving space and listening with the other side, directness even about genocide, consistent truthfulness with no separate story for each party, and the rule that a warning must be carried out. Around them sit the good cop / bad cop arrangement of the NATO process with Turkey and Hungary, the question of what diplomacy can still do inside a war, and a critique of Europe's Africa policy that lands on moralism.", "chapters": [{"t": "00:00", "title": "Pekka Haavisto, raised on Albertinkatu", "seconds": 0}, {"t": "00:42", "title": "Finlandia or the national anthem", "seconds": 42}, {"t": "01:45", "title": "Finland's independence after the Russo-Japanese war", "seconds": 105}, {"t": "02:40", "title": "Russia's vulnerability after the invasion of Ukraine, and Prigozhin's march on Moscow", "seconds": 160}, {"t": "04:00", "title": "Nagorno-Karabakh, Armenia and Azerbaijan: drone war and refugees", "seconds": 240}, {"t": "06:01", "title": "Niinistö, Haavisto and Marin: good cop and bad cop with Erdoğan's Turkey", "seconds": 361}, {"t": "08:50", "title": "Opposition to the NATO application in spring 2022, and the roles of Hungary and Turkey", "seconds": 530}, {"t": "10:54", "title": "Negotiating with Hungary: 1956 and the experience of being left alone", "seconds": 654}, {"t": "12:40", "title": "Finland's law on breaching the sanctity of religion, F-16s and the US", "seconds": 760}, {"t": "15:25", "title": "Diplomacy has worked even in the middle of a war", "seconds": 925}, {"t": "16:50", "title": "Nuclear power against climate risk, and SSAB's importance to Raahe", "seconds": 1010}, {"t": "18:50", "title": "Uusi neuvotteluvalta: the peace negotiation theses from Darfur", "seconds": 1130}, {"t": "20:15", "title": "Thesis: giving space, and listening with the other side", "seconds": 1215}, {"t": "22:08", "title": "Thesis: directness even about genocide — radical truthfulness", "seconds": 1328}, {"t": "23:50", "title": "Thesis: positive surprise through positive truthfulness, with no tactical double messages", "seconds": 1430}, {"t": "24:23", "title": "Thesis: warnings must be carried out; a threat needs backing", "seconds": 1463}, {"t": "25:20", "title": "Time limits in negotiation, and the role of emotion and shame", "seconds": 1520}, {"t": "26:35", "title": "Africa is the great unknown: China's three-part pitch against European moralism", "seconds": 1595}, {"t": "28:53", "title": "Finland's energy policy options, and Rosatom as a mistaken investment", "seconds": 1733}, {"t": "31:00", "title": "Industry and environmental activists may be close to a shared victory", "seconds": 1860}, {"t": "32:00", "title": "Identity politics in Finland, and the need for a civilised mechanism for disagreement", "seconds": 1920}, {"t": "33:07", "title": "Niinistö's concept of common sense, and a safe space for immigrant youth", "seconds": 1987}, {"t": "36:20", "title": "The missing agora, and social media as a poor substitute", "seconds": 2180}, {"t": "37:37", "title": "There is no need to export lessons: the world knows how", "seconds": 2257}, {"t": "39:25", "title": "The best presidents in Finland's history, and Risto Ryti's sacrifice", "seconds": 2365}, {"t": "41:18", "title": "Kofi Annan's courage between the great powers", "seconds": 2478}, {"t": "42:30", "title": "The League of Nations awarded Åland to Finland", "seconds": 2550}, {"t": "43:36", "title": "What do you expect from the presidential campaign", "seconds": 2616}, {"t": "44:05", "title": "Inner Circle 21: Haavisto in Reykjavik", "seconds": 2645}], "sourceTranscriptType": "none", "subtitleMethod": "none", "provenance": "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata, the neuvottelija.fi episode record and the publisher's own chapter marks, translated one for one; their spacing is irregular and matches the recording. No transcript is published here — the channel has no English caption track for this episode and the Finnish one is YouTube's automatic track. The guest was a candidate in the presidential election four months away when this was recorded, so the episode is campaign-period material; the long-form write-up in the Neuvottelija AI editions states that.", "coreTheses": ["A warning must be carried out: a threat without follow-through spends credibility that cannot be rebought.", "Consistent truthfulness means no separate story for each party, which is harder than honesty and is what makes mediation possible.", "The good cop / bad cop arrangement in the NATO process was a deliberate division of roles rather than a disagreement.", "The guest was a presidential candidate when this was recorded, which the article states rather than presenting the episode as neutral."], "slug": "ep213-neuvotteleva-presidentti-pekka-haavisto", "guestsCanonical": ["Pekka Haavisto"], "guestPages": ["https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/guests/pekka-haavisto/"], "page": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep213-neuvotteleva-presidentti-pekka-haavisto/", "markdown": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep213-neuvotteleva-presidentti-pekka-haavisto/index.md", "captions": null, "transcript": null, "videoId": "-ToqrxnEv2o", "dbId": null, "qaCoveragePct": 0.0, "qaSemanticVerdict": "metadata_only", "aiArticleEn": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep213-neuvotteleva-presidentti-pekka-haavisto/", "aiArticleFi": "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/yhteiskunta/ep213-neuvotteleva-presidentti-pekka-haavisto/"}