{"title": "Peak Woke | Matti H. Virtanen and Onni Rostila | Negotiator 145", "titleOriginal": "Peak Woke | Matti H. Virtanen Onni Rostila | Neuvottelija 145", "episodeNumber": "145", "guest": "Matti H. Virtanen, Onni Rostila", "publishedAt": "2022-07-10", "duration": "01:00:02", "durationIso": "PT1H2S", "youtube": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQg62Rdz-6I", "fiCanonical": "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/199-peak-woke-matti-h-virtanen-onni-rostila-neuvottelija-145", "originalLanguage": "fi", "format": "full", "topics": ["free_speech_society"], "description": "Has peak woke already passed, or are both extremes strengthening at once? The freelance journalist Matti H. Virtanen, author of the book Ääripäät, and Onni Rostila, Master of Laws, take up the United States Supreme Court's abortion ruling, the rise of ultra-conservatism, and the part identity politics plays in Russian war propaganda. The conversation works through the mechanisms of polarisation from schismogenesis to the Overton window, and through the independence of Finland's prosecution service and courts. It closes by asking whether a heterodox sensible centre can rescue public debate.", "chapters": [], "sourceTranscriptType": "none", "subtitleMethod": "none", "provenance": "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata and the neuvottelija.fi episode record. The publisher published no chapter marks for this episode, so none are listed here. No transcript is published either — the channel has no English caption track for this episode and the Finnish one is YouTube's automatic track. One guest was promoting his own book on the episode's subject. Both guests argue from the same side of the Finnish debate and no one holding the position they describe is present to answer, and the episode discusses the independence of the prosecution service and the courts in that context. It was recorded shortly after the Dobbs ruling, which several passages treat as still unfolding.", "coreTheses": ["The question is badly posed as a peak: the evidence in the episode is of both poles strengthening, which is a different process from one cresting.", "Schismogenesis explains why each side's position is partly determined by the other's, which makes polarisation self-sustaining without anyone intending it.", "Russian war propaganda uses Western identity politics as material, which is an argument about instrumentation rather than about the politics itself.", "The proposed remedy — a heterodox centre — is the weakest part of the case, because it names a disposition rather than an institution."], "slug": "ep145-peak-woke-virtanen-rostila", "guestsCanonical": ["Matti H. Virtanen", "Onni Rostila"], "guestPages": ["https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/guests/matti-h-virtanen/", "https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/guests/onni-rostila/"], "page": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep145-peak-woke-virtanen-rostila/", "markdown": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep145-peak-woke-virtanen-rostila/index.md", "captions": null, "transcript": null, "videoId": "mQg62Rdz-6I", "dbId": null, "qaCoveragePct": 0.0, "qaSemanticVerdict": "metadata_only", "aiArticleEn": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep145-peak-woke-virtanen-rostila/", "aiArticleFi": "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/yhteiskunta/ep145-peak-woke-virtanen-rostila/"}