{"title": "Payment Systems | Monika Liikamaa and Kirsi Larkiala | Negotiator 121", "titleOriginal": "Maksujärjestelmät | Monika Liikamaa Kirsi Larkiala | Neuvottelija 121", "episodeNumber": "121", "guest": "Monika Liikamaa, Kirsi Larkiala", "publishedAt": "2022-02-13", "duration": "01:01:35", "durationIso": "PT1H1M35S", "youtube": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_g-bhK8vCE", "fiCanonical": "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/156-maksujarjestelmat-monika-liikamaa-kirsi-larkiala-neuvottelij", "originalLanguage": "fi", "format": "full", "topics": ["saas_software", "finnish_economy_policy"], "description": "Enfuce's founder and co-chief-executive Monika Liikamaa and the finance-sector all-rounder Kirsi Larkiala explain what actually happens behind a card payment. Liikamaa sets out why debit and credit are entirely different products, how a payment travels from the terminal through the acquirer and the card scheme to the issuer, and why a closed ecosystem such as the S Group's is the cheapest way to pay. Larkiala argues that the Nordic P27 project is mostly a soft landing for banks that failed to make strategic decisions in time, and both unpack why payment traffic has never made money in Finland. The episode also covers the risk a central bank digital currency poses to commercial banks, security of supply in telecom connections, the public-cloud breakthrough achieved with the financial supervisor, and Enfuce's road from bootstrapping to a 45 million growth round.", "chapters": [], "sourceTranscriptType": "none", "subtitleMethod": "none", "provenance": "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata and the neuvottelija.fi episode record. No chapter marks are published here: the publisher's list holds only two marks, at 0:00 and 0:56, and it is a split of the show-note text rather than a chapter list, so republishing it would assert timestamps that do not hold. No transcript is published either — the channel has no English caption track for this episode and the Finnish one is YouTube's automatic track. One guest runs a payment company whose funding round and listing ambition are discussed in the episode, which makes those passages promotional; the criticism of P27 and of named banks is the guests' own, and none of those institutions is represented. Recorded February 2022, before P27 was abandoned.", "coreTheses": ["Debit and credit are different products rather than two settings of one, and most confusion about payment costs starts from treating them as the same.", "The cheapest payment is the one that never leaves the ecosystem, which is why a closed retail scheme beats the card rails on cost by construction.", "P27 is read here as a soft landing for banks that postponed a strategic decision, not as an infrastructure project on its merits.", "A central bank digital currency is a solvency question for commercial banks, because it removes the deposit that funds them."], "slug": "ep121-maksujarjestelmat-liikamaa-larkiala", "guestsCanonical": ["Monika Liikamaa", "Kirsi Larkiala"], "guestPages": ["https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/guests/monika-liikamaa/", "https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/guests/kirsi-larkiala/"], "page": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep121-maksujarjestelmat-liikamaa-larkiala/", "markdown": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep121-maksujarjestelmat-liikamaa-larkiala/index.md", "captions": null, "transcript": null, "videoId": "F_g-bhK8vCE", "dbId": null, "qaCoveragePct": 0.0, "qaSemanticVerdict": "metadata_only", "aiArticleEn": "https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep121-maksujarjestelmat-liikamaa-larkiala/", "aiArticleFi": "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/economy/ep121-maksujarjestelmat-liikamaa-larkiala/"}